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Sunday Times Rich List suggests UK's wealthiest defy recession
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Old 29-04-2012, 10:25   #1
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Sunday Times Rich List suggests UK's wealthiest defy recession

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17883101

Quote:
The UK's richest people have defied the double-dip recession to become even richer over the past year, according to the annual Sunday Times Rich List.
The newspaper's research found the combined worth of the country's 1,000 wealthiest people is £414bn, up 4.7%.
It means their joint wealth has passed the level last seen in 2008, before the financial crash, to set a new record.
Good luck to them...provided they pay their fair share of taxes of course.

However I'm not going to subscribe to the idea that all it takes is hard work and faith in yourself. It also takes a hell of a lot of luck to make a fortune from scratch.

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/...imes+rich+list
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Old 29-04-2012, 11:40   #2
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Re: Sunday Times Rich List suggests UK's wealthiest defy recession

'suggests'?

Weasel words - to paraphrase Yoda, 'are' or 'are not', there is no 'suggest'....

If they are, say so - if not, using 'suggest' is just trying to stir things up....
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Old 29-04-2012, 12:55   #3
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Re: Sunday Times Rich List suggests UK's wealthiest defy recession

Quelle surprise!

I doubt it's only the UK's rich who're getting richer either. I reckon the rich are getting richer across the globe under governments of all hues as we can see in places like India, China, Brazil and Russia.
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Old 29-04-2012, 13:06   #4
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Re: Sunday Times Rich List suggests UK's wealthiest defy recession

From the Sunday Times article...

Quote:
After an 18% surge last year, this year’s successful assault on the previous record has been fuelled by sharp rises in the wealth of British-born entrepreneurs. They include the diamond retailer Laurence Graff, up £1,300m to £3,300m; Sir Anthony Bamford and family, up £1,500m to £3,150m thanks to outstanding results at their earth-moving machinery business, JCB; and Sir James Dyson, the inventor of the bagless vacuum cleaner, up £1,200m to £2,650m.
so the biggest rises appear to be due their businesses doing well - isn't this a good thing?
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Old 29-04-2012, 14:02   #5
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Re: Sunday Times Rich List suggests UK's wealthiest defy recession

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Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
so the biggest rises appear to be due their businesses doing well - isn't this a good thing?
Not in the New World Order under chairman Fry.
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Old 29-04-2012, 21:54   #6
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Re: Sunday Times Rich List suggests UK's wealthiest defy recession

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
From the Sunday Times article...

so the biggest rises appear to be due their businesses doing well - isn't this a good thing?
yes it does but we have to check how profits been done.

If its selling more goods GREAT well done.

If its smashing wages and sacking staff then its a disgrace.
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Old 29-04-2012, 22:22   #7
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Re: Sunday Times Rich List suggests UK's wealthiest defy recession

Quote:
Originally Posted by mertle View Post

If its smashing wages and sacking staff then its a disgrace.
The thing is that businesses aren't charities. A business has to survive in order to continue trading......so that it can make profit and thereby pay wages, pay taxes, keep or create jobs......which pay more taxes.
I am against businesses squeezing workers so that they can keep shareholders happy but I am equally dismayed at the current vogue of bashing businesses simply because they might be profitable and have to live in the real world (as opposed to a world of left wing success envy and muddled wishful thinking)
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Old 29-04-2012, 22:39   #8
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Re: Sunday Times Rich List suggests UK's wealthiest defy recession

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod View Post
The thing is that businesses aren't charities. A business has to survive in order to continue trading......so that it can make profit and thereby pay wages, pay taxes, keep or create jobs......which pay more taxes.
I am against businesses squeezing workers so that they can keep shareholders happy but I am equally dismayed at the current vogue of bashing businesses simply because they might be profitable and have to live in the real world (as opposed to a world of left wing success envy and muddled wishful thinking)
Well said.

Businesses that are profitable don't close leaving all their staff unemployed.
Businesses that are profitable don't need bailing out, which is what got us into this mess in the first place.
Businesses become profitable when they are efficient, and provide products or services people want. So don't knock profitable businesses run by rich people, knock the ones that waste money then expect a handout from us.
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Old 29-04-2012, 23:11   #9
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Re: Sunday Times Rich List suggests UK's wealthiest defy recession

What about highly profitable companies that move their production lines abroad to take advantage of cheaper pay rates abroad?it's not illegal and they have every right to do so but it's hardly ethical or moral.

I'm rather fed up by the idea that because a business is profitable that the owners are entitled to treat their workforce like crap.That anything goes in the pursuit of profit.Once you start thinking that it's a short step to treating those who work for you badly.
It's a mistake because you eventually end up with a workforce that doesn't trust you,will not put themselves out to work harder than they do already or to work above and beyond for the company.But of course why worry?There are more where they came from.

Also how many on that list actually earned the money.How many just inherited it?
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Old 30-04-2012, 00:21   #10
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Re: Sunday Times Rich List suggests UK's wealthiest defy recession

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J View Post
What about highly profitable companies that move their production lines abroad to take advantage of cheaper pay rates abroad?it's not illegal and they have every right to do so but it's hardly ethical or moral.

I'm rather fed up by the idea that because a business is profitable that the owners are entitled to treat their workforce like crap.That anything goes in the pursuit of profit.Once you start thinking that it's a short step to treating those who work for you badly.
It's a mistake because you eventually end up with a workforce that doesn't trust you,will not put themselves out to work harder than they do already or to work above and beyond for the company.But of course why worry?There are more where they came from.

Also how many on that list actually earned the money.How many just inherited it?
Indeed thats way I think.

Not saying these three mentioned guilty of the following.

JCB shed 2000 jobs in recession 2010 how many he could overted sacking was questionable. He seems largely earned his because JCB expanded in other countries he by in large played fair to his uk workers.

However Dyson closed manufacturing side for in uk 2002 shipped it off to malysia.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2282809.stm

However he been feverent advocate to diminish labour rights . Though factory leases is good idea as agree 21 years is steep.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...factory-leases

Now not against all downsizing if companies cant clearly survive. Some uk firms downsized to pay bosses bigger wages. Someone cut to meet stupid unrealistic targets to shareholders. Whether later down to companies or shareholders doubt those who lost jobs care.

We need to instill to firms smaller profits are fine not expect forever big paydays as long no heavy loses. They should learn the value of there workforce. A happy workforce is productive workforce.

However many got drugged on the need to make massive targets of profit to meet it desperately is to sack the staff. The workforce pay price with wages or jobs to maintain unrealistic aims.

Its why outsourcing come about. Globalising of industries sadly once one outsources rivals got find there 12p hour slaves. We now seeing result this narrow mindedness the collapsing would not be shocked its part issue on economy failure. Poor wage, lack of sales. However they following at moment the gravy of emerging markets. What happens when they consume those turn predominent countries into third world.

Loyal workforce dont mean anything to modern business ethnics of greed..
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Old 30-04-2012, 04:00   #11
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Re: Sunday Times Rich List suggests UK's wealthiest defy recession

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J View Post
What about highly profitable companies that move their production lines abroad to take advantage of cheaper pay rates abroad?it's not illegal and they have every right to do so but it's hardly ethical or moral.
Ethics and morality only matter to most businesses then it starts to hurt their bottom line. But companies that are profitable can't just stand still or they will be quickly overtaken by the competition. If your competitor moves its call centre to India you could take the moral high ground and say you are supporting British jobs and hope your customers don't go to your now cheaper competitor. Or you could just switch too.
In the end it's the consumers that decide, and price is normally the deciding factor. That's not to say that quality and customer service aren't important too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J View Post
I'm rather fed up by the idea that because a business is profitable that the owners are entitled to treat their workforce like crap.That anything goes in the pursuit of profit.Once you start thinking that it's a short step to treating those who work for you badly.
It's a mistake because you eventually end up with a workforce that doesn't trust you,will not put themselves out to work harder than they do already or to work above and beyond for the company.But of course why worry?There are more where they came from.
You have the answer already, companies the treat their staff badly will have a less productive workforce. Therefore companies that treat their staff well will have a competitive advantage in the long run provided they get the other aspects of their business right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J View Post
Also how many on that list actually earned the money.How many just inherited it?
Rich people get rich by providing something lots of people want or they inherit it from some who did.
Richard Branson didn't put a gun to my head when I signed up for broadband.
So he gets a tiny percentage of the money I pay each month, I get broadband and lots of people get employed in-between.
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Old 30-04-2012, 06:56   #12
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Re: Sunday Times Rich List suggests UK's wealthiest defy recession

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J View Post
What about highly profitable companies that move their production lines abroad to take advantage of cheaper pay rates abroad?it's not illegal and they have every right to do so but it's hardly ethical or moral.

I'm rather fed up by the idea that because a business is profitable that the owners are entitled to treat their workforce like crap.That anything goes in the pursuit of profit.Once you start thinking that it's a short step to treating those who work for you badly.
It's a mistake because you eventually end up with a workforce that doesn't trust you,will not put themselves out to work harder than they do already or to work above and beyond for the company.But of course why worry?There are more where they came from.

Also how many on that list actually earned the money.How many just inherited it?
According to the Sunday Times, under 25% is 'inherited'.
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Old 30-04-2012, 07:54   #13
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Re: Sunday Times Rich List suggests UK's wealthiest defy recession

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod View Post
The thing is that businesses aren't charities. A business has to survive in order to continue trading......so that it can make profit and thereby pay wages, pay taxes, keep or create jobs......which pay more taxes.I am against businesses squeezing workers so that they can keep shareholders happy but I am equally dismayed at the current vogue of bashing businesses simply because they might be profitable and have to live in the real world (as opposed to a world of left wing success envy and muddled wishful thinking)


Oh my, the usual suspects blindly bashing business again. What a turn up for the books eh?

How many of them have ever run a business do you reckon?

Easy to bash shareholders too, when without them there'd be precious little business. Most of us are shareholders directly or indirectly via our pension funds and returns do vary quite a lot but of course the usual suspects ever take note that owning shares is a risky business and the dividend returns are linked to performance and go down as well as up.
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Old 30-04-2012, 11:14   #14
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Re: Sunday Times Rich List suggests UK's wealthiest defy recession

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem View Post


Oh my, the usual suspects blindly bashing business again. What a turn up for the books eh?

How many of them have ever run a business do you reckon?

Easy to bash shareholders too, when without them there'd be precious little business. Most of us are shareholders directly or indirectly via our pension funds and returns do vary quite a lot but of course the usual suspects ever take note that owning shares is a risky business and the dividend returns are linked to performance and go down as well as up.
Nobody against shareholders what I am against those who expect dividends to come there way even in downturn. Only way to do so would be to downsize workforce to pay the dividend.

You rightly say its risk so risks it should be if company fails its targets of sales then shareholders should not expect money coming there way.

Priority should be company first, workers pay mean those who make production, shareholders, finally then bosses pay.

Businesses can be run well or run badly I not saying they all bad.

However we seem to gone into global atitude workers are slaves rather valued workers.

Now there many still out there who treat workers fantastic.

What we seeing too much distribution wealth nobody denys rich there deserts but excessive wealth which we seeing globally will kill the economy.

Without people buying goods what will happen stagnation then depression.

The reason why people went to credit as pay freezes pay reductions. Some will say above lifestyle hang on with out that lifestyle economy bombs. So effectively many businesses will goto the wall.

Business need consumers buying goods but those consumers need jobs and real living wage to buy those goods.

Take one out of that circle means death to the economy.

If businesses dont employ enough jobs the government has to prop market with volume puplic sector workers.

If workers paid pittance there not enough disposable cash to buy goods. 1 alternative ie credit by banks loan market the other is government top ups tax credits. Third do nothing leave it rubbish wage.

However for third option you cant have housing utilities sky high. Standard living has to be bombed so there again disposable income to consume goods.

Now you can see we all need each other one becomes greedy bosses, business, shareholders, workers it collapses.

America had it right years ago they got nice balance why they went away from the restricted wealth god knows. It was there most economic upturn from depression.
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Old 30-04-2012, 13:25   #15
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Re: Sunday Times Rich List suggests UK's wealthiest defy recession

But it's not that simple, mertle - as Andrew Sullivan said in yesterday's Sunday Times
Quote:
What Krugman doesn’t acknowledge, of course, is that piling up more short-term debt to restore growth is a luxury most countries cannot afford.

The US is blessed with a global reserve currency which, even in the direst periods, attracts investors and keeps the cost of servicing debt relatively low.
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