New high speed rail link ...is it worth it ? - Page 8

Alan Fry · 10-01-2012, 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

The plan seems to be to allow HS trains to run onto existing track beyond Manchester and Leeds, allowing Liverpool, Newcastle, Glasgow and Edinburgh access to HS2. Although there does still seem to be a long-term aspiration to extend the high-speed lines themselves all the way to Scotland.

They will need to upgrade some parts of the ECMIL and WCML to that, bettet to extend HS2 to Liverpool, Newcastle, Glasgow and Edinburgh, Manchester and Leeds at the same time as building the line to Birmingham from London

**Hugh** · 10-01-2012, 13:02

You have obviously never heard of phasing in projects - do a bit at a time, learn from mistakes/best practice, deliver next phase.

Less risk, better delivery.

**Damien** · 10-01-2012, 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

You have obviously never heard of phasing in projects - do a bit at a time, learn from mistakes/best practice, deliver next phase.

Less risk, better delivery.

But I want it all nnoooooowwwwwww

Alan Fry · 10-01-2012, 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

You have obviously never heard of phasing in projects - do a bit at a time, learn from mistakes/best practice, deliver next phase.

Less risk, better delivery.

I get what you mean, but then building HS2 would take so long that whn it is fully finshed the technonlogy would be out of date, it would take until 2026 to reach Birmingham, 2032 to reach Leeds and Manchester, and who know for the rest of the nations, maybe 2040s-2050s, by then the TGV/ICE technology that virtually all High Speed Railways would be 50 years old, it is likely by then that Maglev would common by then!

**Hugh** · 10-01-2012, 15:02

Big Bang approach is more disruptive and likely to fail (as history shows with large programmes of work), and I am not sure if the technology of railways has changed that much in the last 20-30 years, as I am still waiting for my flying car and jet-pack.

Alan Fry · 10-01-2012, 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

Big Bang approach is more disruptive and likely to fail (as history shows with large programmes of work), and I am not sure if the technology of railways has changed that much in the last 20-30 years, as I am still waiting for my flying car and jet-pack.

30 years ago, we hardly no any High Speed Rail Line apart from france, and they were just started, Maglev technology is already in operation in China, Im am sure that in 40 it will spread, then again who knows.....

**Hugh** · 10-01-2012, 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

30 years ago, we hardly no any High Speed Rail Line apart from france, and they were just started, Maglev technology is already in operation in China, Im am sure that in 40 it will spread, then again who knows.....

In the UK, the HS125's went into production in the early 70's - it's the tracks that are the problems, not the trains.

Alan Fry · 10-01-2012, 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

In the UK, the HS125's went into production in the early 70's - it's the tracks that are the problems, not the trains.

I would agree with that!

Osem · 10-01-2012, 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

Osem, you're cherry-picking the evidence you want to accept and declaring it "more realistic" because it tallies with what you have already decided is going to be the fate of HS2

Incidentally, part of the problem these things cost so much more, mile for mile, in this country, is because of the Nimbys and the nay-sayers who insist on objecting their way to the highest court in the land before accepting the democratic right of an elected government to take strategic decisions about the infrastructure of the country.

This decision has been taken by a government that, rarely for the UK, represents a very large majority of those who voted in the last general election. Furthermore, Labour is broadly supportive of HS2, having initiated the thing in the first place. They really should now be allowed to get on and build it.

Not really, I've come late to this debate because I'm not inherently for or against high speed rail as I've made clear. I simply searched for recent high speed links and found the Dutch example. Highlighting it's problems is no more cherry picking than citing French infrastructure built years ago in a very different financial climate, under very different planning laws and supported by successive governments totally committed to such projects.

Hoping they'll get on a build it now is fine but it overlooks the reality that our planning laws make that very difficult and add greatly to the timescale and therefore the cost. If we could get this thing built in the same way the French have done, the benefits v. costs would be far better IMHO but we're not in France and I can see this thing dragging on and on with the costs mushrooming. A sad but realistic assessment IMHO.

Time, as they say, will tell and I just hope that, if it's going to happen, it's done well and lives up to its supporters hopes and expectations. To that extent I hope I'm wrong.

**Damien** · 10-01-2012, 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osem

Not really, I've come late to this debate because I'm not inherently for or against rail as I've made clear. I simply searched for recent high speed links and found the Dutch example. Highlighting it's problems is no more cherry picking than citing French infrastructure built years ago in a very different financial climate, under very different planning laws and supported by successive governments totally committed to such projects.

I only used the French example to counter your own mention of the Dutch. I have only mentioned the other countries networks to highlight how high speed rail is becoming more common place in developed countries: Mainland Europe, Asia and it's being mooted over in America.

Also successive governments are committed to HS2. Labour were for it, they still are, and so are the Tories.

**Hugh** · 10-01-2012, 16:00

It's been given the go-ahead.

BBC

Quote:

Travelling at speeds of up to 250mph, passengers will be able to commute from Birmingham to London in 45 minutes, reducing the journey time by almost half from one hour and 24 minutes.

A Birmingham to Leeds journey will be reduced from two hours to 57 minutes and a Manchester to London journey from two hours and eight minutes to one hour and eight minutes.

Connections to existing lines should then cut journey times between London, and Edinburgh and Glasgow, to three-and-a-half hours.

The first phase of HS2 will include a connection to Europe via the Channel Tunnel. On completion of HS2 the network will include a direct link to Heathrow

Alan Fry · 10-01-2012, 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

It's been given the go-ahead.

BBC

Well that is be good news, but would it make the West Midlands Part of the London Communiter Belt?

**Hugh** · 10-01-2012, 16:12

Unlikely, unless you live in Birmingham City Centre, as you still have to get to the Railway station.....

Alan Fry · 10-01-2012, 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

Unlikely, unless you live in Birmingham City Centre, as you still have to get to the Railway station.....

Well some have to communte up to 2 hours from london so even if you lived in Sutton Coldfield (about 20 minutes from Birmingham city centre) you could easily communite to london!

Chrysalis · 10-01-2012, 16:19

Ok 17billion, thats only the 80% markup now then

Discussion over for me its approved. Is a inefficient use of cash in my view but thats that its happening.