Crisis in the NHS

[Ramrod]

The NHS has been a badly managed and badly staffed shambles since at least the mid 90's. The recent 'cuts to it's funding' that some people bang on about are imo a red herring deflecting from the way it's been run and staffed for the last three decades. It wasn't fit for purpose back then and nothing has changed since.

[nomadking]

The problem is that they can never predict when exactly any increase in demand is going to occur. Impossible to plan ahead for. the alternative to cancelled ops, is to not plan any ops over the winter months. More money won't solve anything as there's supposed to be a staff shortage.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

The problem is that they can never predict when exactly any increase in demand is going to occur. Impossible to plan ahead for. the alternative to cancelled ops, is to not plan any ops over the winter months. More money won't solve anything as there's supposed to be a staff shortage.

More money would enable salaries to be increased which would enable the vacancies to be filled as the roles would be more attractive.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

More money would enable salaries to be increased which would enable the vacancies to be filled as the roles would be more attractive.

So what other higher paid jobs are these people doing?

Are these mythical staff going to sit around most of the year waiting for when, or if, a peak in demand occurs?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

So what other higher paid jobs are these people doing?

A range of other roles. Once salaries and conditions favour the NHS then those positions will be filled. It's a case of supply and demand.

---------- Post added at 00:24 ---------- Previous post was at 00:21 ----------

Originally Posted by nomadking

Are these mythical staff going to sit around most of the year waiting for when, or if, a peak in demand occurs?

Mythical? What on earth do you mean by that?
Regarding the second point, we're talking about filling vacancies not employing people for the sake of it.

[nomadking]

There is a lack of medical staff generally throughout the Western world. Most countries have to import staff. Pay has little to do with it and nothing to do with a peak in demand which unpredictable in its timing.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

There is a lack of medical staff generally throughout the Western world. Most countries have to import staff. Pay has little to do with it and nothing to do with a peak in demand which unpredictable in its timing.

If you want people, you give them the best pay and conditions that you can afford. If you have to compete internationally for talent then you have to be prepared to pay accordingly for it. Paying staff poor wages as others have described in this post won't attract or retain staff.
We're talking here about filling all the unfilled vacancies through making roles more attractive, not about Winter time demand projections.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Hugh

I have no problem paying more tax for a better service, but why is the the default position? Why not consider the German or French models, which work well, and the funding comes from multiple sources, including taxation?

Something needs to be done, but just to roll out the old shibboleths stops progress - we need to think differently, with a growing aging population.

l agree but can you see our politicians from whatever political persuasion thinking differently with their set ideological dogma?.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Mr K

It's a shambles Mick and I hope your nephew gets better soon.

This has been coming for a long time, the NHS has been relying on luck. It's wake up time for the general public, if you want an NHS you're going to have to pay more tax. It's a message the Tory party won't give as they are quite happy to see it fail, and cut taxes for the rich. Even if they have private health care many don't realise they'll get transferred back to the NHS if they are seriously ill (sometimes having to endure life threatening transfers between hospitals).

I've a suggestion I'm going to stick on the side of a bus

we send the BBC 71 million per week let's spend that on the NHS instead

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by nomadking

The problem is that they can never predict when exactly any increase in demand is going to occur. Impossible to plan ahead for. the alternative to cancelled ops, is to not plan any ops over the winter months. More money won't solve anything as there's supposed to be a staff shortage.

It can be predicted and this crisis was predicted. The Flu was going to be bad this year, forecast months ago, coupled with the Xmas break, cold weather, staff shortages and ageing population, it really isn't rocket science. We just haven't invested enough or employed and trained enough staff in the NHS. Poor management maybe a factor, but it's being used as a smokescreen to try and get away from the fact we're not paying or valuing the NHS or it's staff enough.

On top of that we've got a govt. who have an agenda to run the NHS down. Jeremy Hunt is very quiet, probably waiting for this promotion to Deputy PM having achieved all his objectives no doubt.

[tweetiepooh]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

I've a suggestion I'm going to stick on the side of a bus

we send the BBC 71 million per week let's spend that on the NHS instead

That'll buy 2 boxes of plasters and a box to put them in.

The NHS needs to be more efficient but if you try they'll pay a fortune on efficiency experts and on monitoring how efficient they are.

Originally Posted by Mr K

It can be predicted and this crisis was predicted. The Flu was going to be bad this year, forecast months ago, coupled with the Xmas break, cold weather, staff shortages and ageing population, it really isn't rocket science. We just haven't invested enough or employed and trained enough staff in the NHS. Poor management maybe a factor, but it's being used as a smokescreen to try and get away from the fact we're not paying or valuing the NHS or it's staff enough.

On top of that we've got a govt. who have an agenda to run the NHS down. Jeremy Hunt is very quiet, probably waiting for this promotion to Deputy PM having achieved all his objectives no doubt.

So why don't we try a different model, like the French or German ones?

Because people will scream "privatisation", when in fact, the models are a mixture of public, private not-for-profit, and private. As long as the service is free at the point of use, which was the original NHS maxim, who cares how it is delivered.

Anything but the USA model, which is the biggest cause of bankruptcy for that country.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Hugh

So why don't we try a different model, like the French or German ones?

Because people will scream "privatisation", when in fact, the models are a mixture of public, private not-for-profit, and private. As long as the service is free at the point of use, which was the original NHS maxim, who cares how it is delivered.

Anything but the USA model, which is the biggest cause of bankruptcy for that country.

I think your right , we can't go on like this it's just not working .

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Hugh

So why don't we try a different model, like the French or German ones?

Because people will scream "privatisation", when in fact, the models are a mixture of public, private not-for-profit, and private. As long as the service is free at the point of use, which was the original NHS maxim, who cares how it is delivered.

Anything but the USA model, which is the biggest cause of bankruptcy for that country.

The NHS needs rebuilding from the ground up. It would be a mammoth task for any Government to take on and probaibly encounter massive resistance.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by pip08456

The NHS needs rebuilding from the ground up. It would be a mammoth task for any Government to take on and probaibly encounter massive resistance.

... and those are precisely the reasons it'll probably never happen sadly.