TiVo : Trial a TiVo?

[japitts]

I've got a V+ and until this morning was quite happy with it. But it seems VM are so hell-bent on pushing the TiVo that the BBC CatchUp service has been downgraded without any notice (series-stack & HD content removed)

So I'm looking again at a TiVo... really didn't get on with one when I tried it a couple of years ago but maybe it's time to make the plunge. Pricewise, one of the "Big Bundles" works out fractionally cheaper and also includes a higher broadband tier. So ok there.

But functionally, our V+ is well-over half-full and it's the usual PITA of having to either dump the recordings to DVD or watch them before "D-Day". Is there any way to run the two boxes in parallel for a short period? Or otherwise trial a TiVo to see whether we get on with it?

Thanks,
Jon.

[japitts]

Sorry to reply, too late to edit...

Two other queries with the Catchup side too:

I've always found the picture of the V+ HD CatchUp shows on our TV, better than HD-streaming over the interweb, but how does a TiVo in HD-iPlayer mode on a 32" TV compare?

And series-stacking - I've always liked the concept of every episode being available until 7days after the final episode is screened, the new setup seems different. Am I right in thinking the availability of any program on TiVO OD will be exactly the same as the same program on whichever website it's being streamed from?

[steveh]

Originally Posted by japitts

I've always found the picture of the V+ HD CatchUp shows on our TV, better than HD-streaming over the interweb, but how does a TiVo in HD-iPlayer mode on a 32" TV compare?

HD on iPlayer on the TiVo is I believe a 720i (50fps) or for some shows 720p (25fps) 3.2Mbps H.264 video + 192Kbps AAC audio stream. HD BBC shows via Virgin's own on-demand servers were I believe a 1080i (50fps) 20Mbps MPEG 2 video + MPEG layer 2 audio stream.

So on the TiVo it's using newer technology which gets more out of the same bandwidth, but still not quite to the quality it was before. On a 32" set at an average viewing distance you probably won't notice that much difference. However, there seems to often be congestion to the iPlayer servers from TiVo, especially at peak times, and it is less resilient than Netflix so you may get occasional buffering or be unable to view the HD versions of shows. I find I am more likely to record a show even when I know it will be on iPlayer because of this.

Except for Netflix, other on-demand content comes from Virgin's on-demand servers and is exactly the same as the V-HD or V+ boxes.

Originally Posted by japitts

And series-stacking - I've always liked the concept of every episode being available until 7days after the final episode is screened, the new setup seems different. Am I right in thinking the availability of any program on TiVO OD will be exactly the same as the same program on whichever website it's being streamed from?

That's correct. TiVo uses the standard BBC iPlayer infrastructure that works the same across devices. They're also soon increasing the time for shows on iPlayer to 30 days.

[spiderplant]

Originally Posted by japitts

But functionally, our V+ is well-over half-full and it's the usual PITA of having to either dump the recordings to DVD or watch them before "D-Day". Is there any way to run the two boxes in parallel for a short period?

VM may let you keep the V+ in another room for free. Give them a call and see what they say.

[japitts]

Originally Posted by steveh

Except for Netflix, other on-demand content comes from Virgin's on-demand servers and is exactly the same as the V-HD or V+ boxes.
.

Ah ok - so the BBC iPlayer uses the "app" but everything else (ITV, Sky, C4 & C5?) uses the same as existing V/V+? Didn't realise that, interesting.

I get that the TiVo EPG is a +/- 7 day jobbie, but presumably for shows that are series/older than 7days etc, there's still a menu-type listing? Sorry if this is really basic stuff...

Originally Posted by steveh

That's correct. TiVo uses the standard BBC iPlayer infrastructure that works the same across devices. They're also soon increasing the time for shows on iPlayer to 30 days.

Good stuff - so the percentage of shows that are available online in HD, will be the same with TiVo, that's one up on V+ already then.

We've only got one TV in the house, so having multiroom isn't an option - I was tempted to ask about parallel running for a short while, but decided to just "go for it". Just means clearing through 40-odd hours of recorded stuff to DVD etc. A PITA but then so is VM chopping BBC-HD on V+ with no warning. Seriously unimpressed with that.

Thanks for the other replies so far - really helpful. I'm now really intrigued about the bitrates and resolutions on various media now :-)

[joglynne]

I loved my V+ and it took a leap of faith to swap to a Tivo but looking back I wish I had swapped earlier. A couple of points that could make the change over simpler....

Don't forget to make a note of your recording list. It is surprising how something that you like to record slips your mind.

Also check out the programs that you have recorded, if they are on catchup you could just view them from there once your Tivo is installed this could cut down the number of programs you have to view before switch over day.

I laboriously transferred my recorded programs onto DVD and found that I hardly needed to watch them as most of the stuff was on catch up.

[spiderplant]

Originally Posted by japitts

I get that the TiVo EPG is a +/- 7 day jobbie

-7/+14

Originally Posted by japitts

but presumably for shows that are series/older than 7days etc, there's still a menu-type listing? Sorry if this is really basic stuff...

Yeah, the Search feature knows about all the content that's available. Also there's Browse that groups them by category.

Originally Posted by japitts

so is VM chopping BBC-HD on V+ with no warning. Seriously unimpressed with that.

Do you mean for watching old recordings? Generally VM give you 3 months after the channel has closed.

Originally Posted by japitts

I'm now really intrigued about the bitrates and resolutions on various media now :-)

Press the Info button on the Tivo netflix app and it'll tell you what it is using.

A small correction to what steveh posted: Sky Premium HD On Demand content is only available on TiVo as it's H.264-encoded.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by japitts

But it seems VM are so hell-bent on pushing the TiVo that the BBC CatchUp service has been downgraded without any notice (series-stack & HD content removed)

Apologies if this has already been said, the Series stack removal was a BBC decision

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/news/p...4/iplayer.html

Under the plans approved by the Trust, the current ‘series stacking’ option, where multiple episodes of a TV series can be downloaded retrospectively, will end, although it will still be available for radio programmes.

[japitts]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Apologies if this has already been said, the Series stack removal was a BBC decision

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/news/p...4/iplayer.html

Thanks Ben - it's a perfectly valid point and I was waiting to hear what VM were going to do with this once the BBC had announced it.

What I think was downright "naughty" was the total lack of any communication from VM on this, the way they've removed HD-CatchUp at the same time but done it all in a "reactive" way and left it for people to call CS. Then have a reactive statement with some rubbish about "increasing choice of content on V+".

Just typical VM communication to be honest which has ceased surprising me anymore. I get that there'll be a technical explanation somewhere (putting all HD-OD onto MPEG4 perhaps?) but the whole thing just stinks of a marketing decision.

In which case...technically it worked and it has pushed me into TiVo. But with a slightly bad taste in the mouth. Hopefully once we've got through changeover day later this week I'll be less annoyed!

[japitts]

Originally Posted by steveh

HD on iPlayer on the TiVo is I believe a 720i (50fps) or for some shows 720p (25fps) 3.2Mbps H.264 video + 192Kbps AAC audio stream. HD BBC shows via Virgin's own on-demand servers were I believe a 1080i (50fps) 20Mbps MPEG 2 video + MPEG layer 2 audio stream.

So on the TiVo it's using newer technology which gets more out of the same bandwidth, but still not quite to the quality it was before. On a 32" set at an average viewing distance you probably won't notice that much difference. However, there seems to often be congestion to the iPlayer servers from TiVo, especially at peak times, and it is less resilient than Netflix so you may get occasional buffering or be unable to view the HD versions of shows. I find I am more likely to record a show even when I know it will be on iPlayer because of this.

.

TiVo was installed yesterday morning, and this is really the one big bugbear unfortunately. We watched 2 episodes of Eastenders in HD-Catchup, and actually it didn't seem much better than SD.

I'm not sure whether it's the resolution or what.. but it seemed to have a "cinematic" feel to it and certainly wasn't what I'd call broadcast quality. Think I'll need to keep on experimenting and trying other BBC shows that are in SD & HD - I certainly can't fault the SD quality so far.

[oliver1948uk]

I have a 37 inch Panasonic and normally can see little if any difference between SD and HD. I put this down to the excellent SD picture produced by Tivo rather than a problem with HD.

Of course, people with larger screens may well have a diffent experience.

[nn012]

The HD quality of iPlayer on TiVo isn't as good as the iPlayer on V+, I find. The HD stuff has now returned though in the HD catch up folder on my V+.

[japitts]

Originally Posted by nn012

The HD quality of iPlayer on TiVo isn't as good as the iPlayer on V+, I find. The HD stuff has now returned though in the HD catch up folder on my V+.

Having had our V+ swapped for TiVo last Friday, I get the feeling that the quality *can* be pretty close, certainly sufficient to not worry. But it doesn't seem nearly as reliable... short term problems I hope.

[telegramsam]

Why has the HD content the BBC i-player been removed on the v boxes? I`m not happy about it really. I have a tivo box box but her-that-must-be-obeyed hogs that so rarely get a look in!
Incidently I`ve looked at getting a second tivo box BUT the activation fee is nearly 100 quid! How do virgin justify that much?

[jb66]

Originally Posted by telegramsam

Why has the HD content the BBC i-player been removed on the v boxes? I`m not happy about it really. I have a tivo box box but her-that-must-be-obeyed hogs that so rarely get a look in!
Incidently I`ve looked at getting a second tivo box BUT the activation fee is nearly 100 quid! How do virgin justify that much?

Id look at getting a tivo again, they can post them out