Anti-gay adverts pulled from bus campaign by Boris Johnson

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Russ

I can't remember exactly who it was now, it all happened about 20 years ago. Their original intention was to go after in-the-closet people who were condemning homosexuality as you say (not in itself a bad thing) however they got drunk on the publicity it gave them and went after anyone they felt 'needing' outing. Private Eye did a great feature about them.



I think if I suggested what you needed to do I'd get banned from the forum.

I repeat: it is NOT your place to decide or suggest what someone of whose lifestyle you do not experience should or should not do.

Did all those "closet" gays vote against pro-gay laws and for anti-gay laws?

There are many examples where living a lie ruins your life, whatever your "flaws" you have to live with them

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

Did all those "closet" gays vote against pro-gay laws and for anti-gay laws?

There are many examples where living a lie ruins your life, whatever your "flaws" you have to live with them

Is being gay a "flaw"?

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Once again, facts are not your friends......

Link



Some Sikhs disagree with your viewpoint...

World Sikh group against gay marriage bill

They do seem to say that it is not natural (which it is), they also seem it say it is ok to be homophobic

Also, they seem to thing that you have a choice in being gay or not, well it is not that easy...

They also seem to accept the view that Homosexuality is a sin, even though the bible is not 100% clear and NO ONE has asked Jesus on the matter

So basicly, what they are saying has nothing to do with Christanity and everything to do with backward values

As for Some Sikhs, well they opnions have more to do with cultures than anything to do with religion, for example Sikhs are told to no hate or animosity to any person, regardless of race, caste, color, creed, gender, or sexuality. Marrrage is also seen as a Union of (Genderless) Souls, it does not matter what is the gender of the body that contains the soul

---------- Post added at 09:37 ---------- Previous post was at 09:32 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

Definitely, daniel.

But when someone posts an all-inclusive statement such as I feel it appropriate to point out that his (and many other) religion's followers do not all think the same.

However, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence - just because it doesn't state it is for/against something, doesn't mean it isn't for/against something....

For instance, I can find nothing about the Sikh religion's views on paedophilia or cannibalism - that doesn't mean it is for or against those things, just that nothing was said* (as far as I could see).


*just to be clear, I don't think Sikhs are for cannibalism and/or paedophilia...

I was not talking about what Sikh followers think (there are 30 million of then, I did not ask then all on what they thought), only the religion itself, but there is no doubt that the religion itself has nothing against Homosexuality, certainly at the very least, we are told to treat them as equals (even if we are not keen on what they do)

---------- Post added at 09:38 ---------- Previous post was at 09:37 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

Is being gay a "flaw"?

No it is not, but for those types of people it is for them

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

Did all those "closet" gays vote against pro-gay laws and for anti-gay laws?

I have no idea, you'll have to ask them (rather than assuming).

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

There are many examples where living a lie ruins your life, whatever your "flaws" you have to live with them

Whether that is true or not is irrelevant - it is NOBODY'S business but your own whether to make public this 'lie'. I have my own issues that are private to me and if someone chose to go public with them because they decided it would be 'best' for me then they'd end up in a whole world of trouble.

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

No it is not, but for those types of people it is for them

More assumptions on other peoples' behalf?

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Russ

I have no idea, you'll have to ask them (rather than assuming).



Whether that is true or not is irrelevant - it is NOBODY'S business but your own whether to make public this 'lie'. I have my own issues that are private to me and if someone chose to go public with them because they decided it would be 'best' for me then they'd end up in a whole world of trouble.



More assumptions on other peoples' behalf?

I agree that it is up to the person to "come out", unless they are hypocrites, but you have not come up with any examples of people who were "closet" and were not hypocrites!

And anyway, it is not a good idea to live a lie and feel ashamed at who you are!

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

I agree that it is up to the person to "come out", unless they are hypocrites, but you have not come up with any examples of people who were "closet" and were not hypocrites!

I'll look on the Private Eye archive for it.

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

And anyway, it is not a good idea to live a lie and feel ashamed at who you are!

I'm not doubting that. The point I've made several times (and that you're ignoring) is that it is nobody's business but the individual as to whether to make that 'lie' public knowledge.

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Russ

I'll look on the Private Eye archive for it.



I'm not doubting that. The point I've made several times (and that you're ignoring) is that it is nobody's business but the individual as to whether to make that 'lie' public knowledge.

Look, I agree with you on the last point, but what they are donig is not right at all in my opinion

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

Look, I agree with you on the last point, but what they are donig is not right at all in my opinion

As long as it stays as just someone's opinion then fine. But if there was somebody going around 'outing' people purely because they thought it was somehow 'best' for them, would you agree that would be an invasion of privacy?

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Russ

As long as it stays as just someone's opinion then fine. But if there was somebody going around 'outing' people purely because they thought it was somehow 'best' for them, would you agree that would be an invasion of privacy?

Yes I would to be honest, it would have been better if they were convinced to do it on their own, unless they were hypocrities

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

Yes I would to be honest, it would have been better if they were convinced to do it on their own, unless they were hypocrities

Why should they need to be convinced at all ? If a gay person doesn't wish to tell everyone that is his own buissness and personally i wish a few more would keep quiet .The world does not need to know if a person is gay or not

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

Yes I would to be honest, it would have been better if they were convinced to do it on their own, unless they were hypocrities

There you go again. 'Convinced to do it on their own'.

Why are you so sure you know best about something which is private to an individual if you have not experienced it yourself?

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by martyh

Why should they need to be convinced at all ? If a gay person doesn't wish to tell everyone that is his own buissness and personally i wish a few more would keep quiet .The world does not need to know if a person is gay or not

Becuase in a lot of cases, they are ashamed of the fact they are Gay, If some told me that they were in secret, I would not tell anyone, but I would tell them to

It is not very easy to hide it by the way

---------- Post added at 10:35 ---------- Previous post was at 10:34 ----------

Originally Posted by Russ

There you go again. 'Convinced to do it on their own'.

Why are you so sure you know best about something which is private to an individual if you have not experienced it yourself?

Becuase I have seen what happens when you live a lie

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

Becuase I have seen what happens when you live a lie

How do you know that would apply in the majority of cases?

---------- Post added at 10:37 ---------- Previous post was at 10:36 ----------

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

Becuase in a lot of cases, they are ashamed of the fact they are Gay

How do you know that to be the case? Has there been any research in to the matter?

---------- Post added at 10:39 ---------- Previous post was at 10:37 ----------

By the way here's an example of Tatchell and co's early tactics of 'Outing' people - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OutRage...ng_controversy

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

Becuase in a lot of cases, they are ashamed of the fact they are Gay,

I defy you to produce any evidence of that at all .It singularly the most crass comment you have made so far .

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Russ

How do you know that would apply in the majority of cases?

---------- Post added at 10:37 ---------- Previous post was at 10:36 ----------



How do you know that to be the case? Has there been any research in to the matter?

---------- Post added at 10:39 ---------- Previous post was at 10:37 ----------

By the way here's an example of Tatchell and co's early tactics of 'Outing' people - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OutRage...ng_controversy

Like I said, outing people can be done when they are hypocrities (which was nearly all the cases) and anyway they only did to force the newspapers to come against it (when they were doing themselfs)

---------- Post added at 10:59 ---------- Previous post was at 10:58 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

I defy you to produce any evidence of that at all .It singularly the most crass comment you have made so far .

Rock Hudson, Dust Springfield, the list goes on...