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Brexit discussion
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Old 12-11-2017, 14:56   #706
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by Mick View Post
I do wonder how many times the side of the Red Bus has to come in to this topic?

As many times as other topics one suspects.

---------- Post added at 13:50 ---------- Previous post was at 13:48 ----------

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Originally Posted by Mick View Post
I mean, it's like, everyone is to believe the remain side never told any porkies or never distorted the truth, to buy more votes.
Both as bad as each other IMO and one should be ashamed that both sides told so many porkies to the electorate and are still doing that now sadly.

---------- Post added at 13:51 ---------- Previous post was at 13:50 ----------

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Which is utter nonsense because they did!
Absolutely.

---------- Post added at 13:54 ---------- Previous post was at 13:51 ----------

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Originally Posted by Mick View Post
Every time the Red bus issue is brought up, it's very much sanctimonious, one sided BS from some of the Remain side, not all, but some!

.
And the same sentiments can also be applied to some of the Brexit side as well Mick unless you don't think so?..

---------- Post added at 13:56 ---------- Previous post was at 13:54 ----------

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Originally Posted by Mick View Post
Neither campaign holds the moral high ground here. I am prepared to accept this and I have said this every time, even though my side won.
Absolutely so there needs to be give and take IMO if we are ever going to get a reasonable Brexit deal that suit all in this country and not just certain groups.
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Old 12-11-2017, 15:32   #707
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by denphone View Post
Well this is one man who wants that pledge paid in full.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/h...hief-vqhqmtz7j
Notice it says 'Let's spend'. Most of us accept that this was a suggestion, not a promise. The campaigners were cross party and therefore they were not in a position to make promises anyway.

As for the amount, we have been over and over this. It is the gross figure.

Let's give it a rest now, shall we? That's a suggestion, by the way, not a promise!

---------- Post added at 14:32 ---------- Previous post was at 14:28 ----------

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Absolutely so there needs to be give and take IMO if we are ever going to get a reasonable Brexit deal that suit all in this country and not just certain groups.
Will you tell Mr Barnier that?
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Old 12-11-2017, 15:35   #708
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by denphone View Post

And the same sentiments can also be applied to some of the Brexit side as well Mick unless you don't think so?.
Hence why I finished my last post with neither side having the moral high ground.
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Old 12-11-2017, 15:43   #709
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post

Will you tell Mr Barnier that?
Both sides need to know that as it takes two sides to tango and two sides to come to a agreement unless you think otherwise?.
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Old 12-11-2017, 15:48   #710
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by denphone View Post
Both sides need to know that as it takes two sides to tango and two sides to come to a agreement unless you think otherwise?.
Well, I don't see Barnier dancing.
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Old 12-11-2017, 16:00   #711
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by pip08456 View Post
How many times do you have to be told. It was not a pledge but a suggestion.

It's like me saying to you let's go down the brown cow for a drink and you saying no I's prefer the black horse. No pledge anywhere there, just a simple suggestion.
Take it this was a suggestion as well?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIYq5xMW98I
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Old 12-11-2017, 16:11   #712
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by Bircho View Post
Take it this was a suggestion as well?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIYq5xMW98I
Unfortunately if recruitment maintains the current trend it's staff that will be thinned out, not patients.
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Old 12-11-2017, 17:40   #713
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by Bircho View Post
Take it this was a suggestion as well?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIYq5xMW98I
Yes, what do you think it was?
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Old 12-11-2017, 18:34   #714
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by daveeb View Post
Unfortunately if recruitment maintains the current trend it's staff that will be thinned out, not patients.
That would at least cut down on costs. They also need to become efficient, and that way they could do more with less.

There is certainly a problem with a shortage of doctors and nurses and the government has measures in place to address that.

But we need fewer managers and assorted bereaucrats, not more.
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Old 12-11-2017, 18:52   #715
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
That would at least cut down on costs. They also need to become efficient, and that way they could do more with less.

There is certainly a problem with a shortage of doctors and nurses and the government has measures in place to address that.

But we need fewer managers and assorted bereaucrats, not more.
Given the NHS is utterly dependent on a migrant workforce, and they are leaving in droves since the vote, how exactly has Brexit helped ?

Do more with less? You sound a bit like a management consultant beaureaucrat that you want to get rid of. Get rid of all the pen pushers, then nurses and drs have to do the pen pushing instead of treating patients.

The govt. have certainly 'worked on this' by getting rid of bursaries for nurses making the job even less attractive, if possible. They certainly do have an agenda to run down the NHS so Brexit is helping with that at least.
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Old 12-11-2017, 19:24   #716
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by Mr K View Post
Given the NHS is utterly dependent on a migrant workforce, and they are leaving in droves since the vote, how exactly has Brexit helped ?

Do more with less? You sound a bit like a management consultant beaureaucrat that you want to get rid of. Get rid of all the pen pushers, then nurses and drs have to do the pen pushing instead of treating patients.

The govt. have certainly 'worked on this' by getting rid of bursaries for nurses making the job even less attractive, if possible. They certainly do have an agenda to run down the NHS so Brexit is helping with that at least.
Well, you are certainly doing an excellent job of peddling these Labour myths.

Have you actually noticed any difference that directly results from all those Primary Care Trusts that were abolished? Of course not, they were an unnecessary layer of bureaucracy.

I had to laugh at your reference to pen pushers! They are so last century. All modern employers employ keyboard pressers these days, and believe me, they are a lot more efficient. Next thing will be that you will be complaining about the cost of carbon paper.

If you stopped picking at issues such as bursaries and concentrated on the number of doctors and nurses being trained now compared with when your beloved Labour party was in power, you would start to see the bigger picture.
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Old 12-11-2017, 19:34   #717
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Well, you are certainly doing an excellent job of peddling these Labour myths.

Have you actually noticed any difference that directly results from all those Primary Care Trusts that were abolished? Of course not, they were an unnecessary layer of bureaucracy.

I had to laugh at your reference to pen pushers! They are so last century. All modern employers employ keyboard pressers these days, and believe me, they are a lot more efficient. Next thing will be that you will be complaining about the cost of carbon paper.

If you stopped picking at issues such as bursaries and concentrated on the number of doctors and nurses being trained now compared with when your beloved Labour party was in power, you would start to see the bigger picture.
The bigger (and actual) picture OB is long waiting times increasing 557% in A & E.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...y_to_clipboard

If anybody thinks Brexit is the answer to the NHS's problems they are very mistaken, it just adds to them greatly.
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Old 12-11-2017, 19:38   #718
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by Mr K View Post
The bigger (and actual) picture OB is long waiting times increasing 557% in A & E.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...y_to_clipboard

If anybody thinks Brexit is the answer to the NHS's problems they are very mistaken, it just adds to them greatly.
Well, it should cut down immigration, which is a principal reason why waiting times have increased.

The other one is that the baby boomers are getting old.

Nothing to do with the management of the NHS.
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Old 12-11-2017, 19:43   #719
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Well, it should cut down immigration, which is a principal reason why waiting times have increased.

The other one is that the baby boomers are getting old.

Nothing to do with the management of the NHS.
Who are you going to blame OB? when many are already going back to their own countries and more will follow as you cannot blame them anymore for this countries increasing ills.
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Old 12-11-2017, 21:00   #720
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Well, it should cut down immigration, which is a principal reason why waiting times have increased.

The other one is that the baby boomers are getting old.

Nothing to do with the management of the NHS.
No-one can help Mr K. Bless him, he is still happily sourcing the crappy remoaner gutter rag, theguardian, that he thinks people like you or I are going to be hoodwinked and read the BS that's printed in it.
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