Bring Back Fox Hunting

Originally Posted by papa smurf

will the fox population get a vote ?

Will they fox!

Originally Posted by Thomas T

I am only sad that i can no longer see well enough to shoot the vermin.

the vermin as in foxes or as in fox hunt supporters?

a friend of my dads has just been cleared of manslaughter of a hunt supporter. He was monitored a drag hunt using a gyrocopter. A hunt supporter then followed to confront him when he landed and literally lost his head

At the end of the day there are humane methods of maintaining the fox population and hunting with dogs was never efficient anyway. Barbaric to say the least chaing an animal till it can run no more then a pack of dogs tearing it apart hmmmm sporty

[dilli-theclaw]

Well I only ever shot a fox when it was killing animals on the farm where I lived. Mind you if I caught a burgler or something I honestly don't know if I'd have shot them too. Most likely have just shot over their head to scare them off.

Mind you it's all different now so who knows.

Why on earth will they even consider bringing it back? Has anyone actually asked the Tories if this is the case because I'ld be surprised if they would want to bring this vote up. It seems a step backward to re-introduce the practise. Effectively torturing animals for fun is barbaric!

---------- Post added at 09:52 ---------- Previous post was at 09:49 ----------

Originally Posted by Thomas T

Well I only ever shot a fox when it was killing animals on the farm where I lived. Mind you if I caught a burgler or something I honestly don't know if I'd have shot them too. Most likely have just shot over their head to scare them off.

Mind you it's all different now so who knows.

Population control and protection of livestock is one thing, using dogs to rip them apart, is another.

[Julian]

Originally Posted by Damien

Why on earth will they even consider bringing it back? Has anyone actually asked the Tories if this is the case because I'ld be surprised if they would want to bring this vote up. It seems a step backward to re-introduce the practise. Effectively torturing animals for fun is barbaric!

Can't argue with that Damian.

Applying that as the reason for banning foxhunting, why is angling allowed?

Oh and horse racing, greyhound racing, pigeon fancying,crufts......

well I do think your reasoning is flawed there. The last examples hardly leave an animal ripped apart do they. Angling has never floated my boat but I am told the fish does not feel pain but I do think its a cruel sport

Originally Posted by Damien

Why on earth will they even consider bringing it back? Has anyone actually asked the Tories if this is the case because I'ld be surprised if they would want to bring this vote up. It seems a step backward to re-introduce the practise. Effectively torturing animals for fun is barbaric!

Population control and protection of livestock is one thing, using dogs to rip them apart, is another.

It saddens me how the mostly urban population of this country is so ready to legislate on countryside issues when the extent of their briefing on said issues amounts to a few dimly-recollected bedtime stories.

One carnivore tearing another to shreds isn't 'torture'. It's what happens. It's nature. Tell you what, next time one of the chickens in next door's run gets 'tortured' by Brer Fox, I'll post a photo of it for you, shall I?

[injuneer]

Well a load of psychos in red coats won't get my vote.

[WHISTLED]

Cheshire Forest Hunt point to point is at Tabley House 11th of April if anyone fancies it. Come along and support the hunt.

The Cheshire Hunts is the week following I believe, same venue.

See you there.

Originally Posted by Chris

It saddens me how the mostly urban population of this country is so ready to legislate on countryside issues when the extent of their briefing on said issues amounts to a few dimly-recollected bedtime stories.

One carnivore tearing another to shreds isn't 'torture'. It's what happens. It's nature. Tell you what, next time one of the chickens in next door's run gets 'tortured' by Brer Fox, I'll post a photo of it for you, shall I?

so you are telling me the hounds do not get fed regularly and the only food they eat is what they catch in the hunts?

A fox sees a chicken as food they are wild animals hunting that is nature

The hound is a domestic creature no longer wild fed and looked after by the owners. Now if they used a wild pack of Wolves then the hunt would be survival of the fittest

Originally Posted by Chris

It saddens me how the mostly urban population of this country is so ready to legislate on countryside issues when the extent of their briefing on said issues amounts to a few dimly-recollected bedtime stories.

It's population/pest control for sport. I don't think I am wrong there am I? Also I don't think it was made illegal to kill foxes to protect livestock, just the manor of chasing them and then setting the dogs on them? The first is quick, the latter would distress the animal and then led to a slow death?

One carnivore tearing another to shreds isn't 'torture'. It's what happens. It's nature. Tell you what, next time one of the chickens in next door's run gets 'tortured' by Brer Fox, I'll post a photo of it for you, shall I?

No you don't need to post a picture, but animals acting barbaric towards other animals doesn't give us licence to do the same to them does it? Dog's fighting each other is also nature but it's outlawed for humans to train and make them fight for sport, and rightly so.

Originally Posted by Damien

It's population/pest control for sport. I don't think I am wrong there am I? Also I don't think it was made illegal to kill foxes to protect livestock, just the manor of chasing them and then setting the dogs on them? The first is quick, the latter would distress the animal and then led to a slow death?

It is population/pest control, yes. It is also sport, yes. Two different aims that are met by the same process. As for 'distress', well during the whole debate over the Act, 540 members of the Royal College of Vet Surgeons signed up to the statement that:

"Hunting with hounds is the natural and most humane way of controlling the population of all four quarry species" (the quarry species being mink, deer, fox and hare).

http://www.vet-wildlifemanagement.or...d=30&Itemid=32

... so, it seems, a lot of people who have expert knowledge of the subject disagree with you.

No you don't need to post a picture, but animals acting barbaric towards other animals doesn't give us licence to do the same to them does it?

There you go with the anthropomorphism again. It's so ingrained in your approach to the subject that you don't even realise you're doing it. One animal cannot act with barbarity towards another. That is a moral judgement on behaviour that simply cannot apply.

For centuries, humans have harnessed and used properly trained animals for a wide variety of tasks. Using a dog to kill a fox is in no way different than using a dog to round up sheep.

Dog's fighting each other is also nature but it's outlawed for humans to train and make them fight for sport, and rightly so.

Dogs fighting each other is natural, yes, and within a pack of - say - hunting dogs, a degree of fighting may take place as a social order is established. Such fighting between dogs that are under human ownership is not outlawed, and nor should it be.

Fighting in a ring between dogs that have been deliberately bred and brutalised in order to force them to behave contrary to their usual nature is an entirely different matter and is rightly illegal. However you are going to have to do a lot more work to convince me that this sort of fighting is in any way analogous with the practice of hunting with dogs, other than the entirely superficial application of the label 'sport'.

you are right Chris its not the animals that are barbaric its the Huntsmen

I don't believe that harnessing one animal's natural characteristics to derive some benefit for human activity is barbaric.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Chris

I don't believe that harnessing one animal's natural characteristics to derive some benefit for human activity is barbaric.

It is when doing so is inefficient, causes unnecessary suffering to other animals and there are far more humane and efficient methods of deriving said benefits.