Connection drops in/drops out periodically

[Rajie]

I've been having a strange problem for a couple of months now intermittently. Basically the connection will drop out and reconnect, only when it reconnects it continues to drop-out and reconnect on and off. The lights on the modem are exactly as they would be if I was connected and online - i.e. when there has been a network problem in the area in the past the two lights furthest right which I think are upstream/downstream(?) one of those will be flashing - this is NOT the case, both lights remain constant even when I am disconnected/reconnecting, so I can't tell by looking at the lights what the problem is.

When the connection comes back on (takes about the usual time it would be from plugging in the modem) I do a test like go to BBC news in my browser, it will then load the title in the browser tab so I'm clearly online, but it will take a very long time to load the page - and only that page. If I open another tab and click on anything else - even google - it will not load even the header title nor will any othe link work on the first page if it has loaded by now. This then signals that I will be disconnected again, reconnected and again I test with say BBC news page and the exact same cycle happens until I'm too frustrated to keep going and I unplug the modem. The exact same thing happens when I plug it back in after a couple of minutes sometimes say or even 10-15 mins. Sometimes rebooting my PC helps get things back to normal or using my separate wireless router (or only a wired connection if I was using the router when the problem first started). But more often than not I just leave it for a good 5-6 hours or overnight if it's too late to faff around.

I'm on an old wired connection modem, I don't have superhub (not even sure what that is tbh). I also use a separate wireless router on and off for other devices sometimes that I plug in to the main Virgin router - it happens with or without it so it's not a wireless problem, it can happen when I only use a wired connection to the main PC.

It feels like it's a traffic shaping measure as it will often happen if I've just watched say a load of youtube videos or downloaded something. It doesn't have to be a huge file 200-300mb say, but if the download speed was full speed - I'm only on 20mb - this seems to trigger it. Maybe that's paranoia, but it's my experience of how and when the problem occurs. Is this how Virgin traffic shape by disconnecting you temporarily, it doesn't seem to make sense but it's the only thing I can think of.

Has anyone experienced this themselves or know what the problem could be? I've read similar accounts on the Virgin forum but there's a lot of techno jargon and most customers have a superhub so I'm not sure the answers apply to my situation. If anyone could give me any pointers I'd be grateful.


TR;DR - Modem connects/reconnects over and over but the lights stay on as if it were connected and online.

[Taf]

set up a (free) monitor at http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/monitors.html and post a couple of days graphs.

[qasdfdsaq]

First thing we need to do is get the modem's status while you're disconnected. You'll need to specify what modem you have so we can tell you how to get it's signal readings. Furthermore, you should try pinging the modem constantly, especially when it's 'down but not down'. I believe it's something along the lines of:

ping -t -w 1 192.168.1.100

in a command line or the Run prompt

[General Maximus]

I am a bit confused, you say you have got a standalone modem, a separate wireless router and "the main Virgin router". Can you tell us the make make and model of each device (should be on the bottom) and what is connected to what e.g. your pc is wired to whatever you call the main router.

You need to be careful about the older posts you read on forums if you search for stuff. What you refer to as traffic shaping is called stm in this context and VM don't do it anymore. Your connection is 100% unimpeded as far as you are concerned and the only time you should see it slow down is if there is a lot of congestion e.g. everyone watching youtube on a Sunday afternoon.

VM came up with superhubs (shubs) simply for this reason. They don't like it when people have problems like you have got because they don't know what routers you are using, how they are setup or what options you have tinkered with. As far as they are concerned your connection could be perfect and it is one of your routers which is playing up. The shubs are combi modem/routers with custom firmware so you basically have one device which provides you with your internet connection as well as letting everything else connect to it either wired or wirelessly. Because VM have designed all the settings and options they are in a better position to understand how it works and tell you what to do if things aren't working as they are supposed to. Now all that is great in theory but the first lot of shubs which came out were pants although they aren't too bad performance wise these days (they are on their 3rd generation) the custom firmware still leaves much to be desired and you are still better off using your own router if you know what you are doing.

[Rajie]

Yes, sorry for the confusion over the routers. I'm using the wired connection router virgin gave me. It doesn't have wireless. Because of that, many years ago I also purchased a wireless router that connects to that so that I can use devices that use wireless (laptop, gaming devices etc). Sometimes I use wired, sometimes wireless (if someone else in the house wants to use it for example) - the problem happens both times, so I don't see how the problem can be my personal wireless router since it happens when I'm only using the virgin-supplied wired router.

Personal wireless router: LinkSys WRT54GC
Virgin router number on the bottom: E08013:00 (it has a big "256" on the label too)
This isn't my image, but I found a picture on google images of the same virgin modem here: http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/q...pcrouter1a.jpg

The only reason I suspected traffic shaping was because it would often happen after a period of heavy use (which I try to keep to offpeak times like the middle of the night). If I transfer a large amount of data and then this connection problem happens, I assume that this is the cause of the problem and VM are shaping my traffic or something similar. If that isn't the case, then that's great but it also means I'm totally in the dark as to the actual cause.

Thanks for your help.

[General Maximus]

The ambit 256 is a modem only. Either way though, why are you using two routers and not just the Linksys directly attached to your modem? There is a 4 port switch on the back of your Linksys router to which you can connect wired devices and obviously you have got the wireless as well. I suggest you do this in the short term so we can ascertain whether it is your connection which is at fault or a connectivity issue with the router. When you start to daisy chain routers it can introduce problems and make it hard to work out what is happening with your traffic if you don't know what you are doing. Two points though:

1) 20mbit is an old tier which VM are dying to get rid of so I would strongly suggest you give them a ring and see what they say. They should upgrade you to 50mbits for free and send you a shub (which you will need for the speed) which you can use just as a modem if you want.
2) Taking the above into consideration, you won't get more than 25mbits wired or wireless through your current Linksys router and I would seriously suggest taking a look at something like this. It is basically a beefier version of what you have already got and the wireless range and speed will be far superior to what you can currently achieve. Atm any laptops/tablets/phones you have bought in the last 4 or 5 years are being held back by the legacy wireless on your router.

As an fyi, I have just done a quick google and I think you have got yourself in a right pickle. If your "virgin router" looks anything like this, it isn't a router at all and is just a modem so if you are using another modem which is connected to your VM line and is working then you should only be using your Linksys router.





It is very rare I say this (it is only the second time ever) but I seriously think you should just forget using all 3 pieces of equipment you currently have, ring VM and ask for a superhub2 and they'll also bang you up to 50mbits. The reason I say this is because the modem part of the shub (without going into technical detail) will be far superior to what you currently have, provide you with a more reliable connection and you are more likely to be able to get the faster speeds. I do my Linksys routers but the shub2 is going to be better for you atm for both wired and wireless. If you do decide you want to go back to using your modem in the future you can do no problem. The shubs have a feature called modem mode and it makes the shub act only as a modem and you can connection any router your want to it and attach all your clients to your new router.

I really do think getting a shub is going to fix all your problems and although you are new to the forum, their are some very tech savvy experts on this forum who work in IT and you'll see them all agreeing with me when they join this thread. Trust us

[Rajie]

I can't see any way to connect the linksys wireless router diretly since there's no port on it to accept the white round cable that comes from the virgin cable box in the wall.

I can't afford to buy any new equipment at the moment, although tbh the speed we have now is adequate, I don't really have a need for a higher speed. (When it works!) it's ok as it is now speed-wise for our needs.

[General Maximus]

What I am saying is that you should only be using one modem. The coax coming out of the wall sock should go into to the back of the ambit 256 and then your Linksys router should connect to the ambit 256.

I honestly believe that all the problems you are experiencing are attributed to the equipment you are using. I am all for "if it ain't broken don't fix it" but the stuff you are using is ancient in the networking world. VM basically don't want it used on their network anymore and like I said, will send you a shub2 for free and upgrade your connection at the same time. You don't need to be nervous about using something new, the shubs are easy to setup and work exactly the same as your Linksys router, the only difference is that it is an all-in-one box. The increased speed is neither here nor there and you won't have to do anything for it, VM send an update to the shub saying "you are now allowed to do 50mbits instead of 20".

To give you some perspective, I used to have the same Linksys router as you but I stopped using it back in 2006/7 and moved onto the next model because 50mbits came out and I actually had exactly the same modem and router which you are currently using and both of them has to be replaced so I could achieve the new higher speed. At the time I moved onto an Ambit 300 (may it rest in peace) and a Linksys wrt150n. So what you have got to think of is that the stuff you are currently using is 8 years old.

[Rajie]

Originally Posted by General Maximus

What I am saying is that you should only be using one modem. The coax coming out of the wall sock should go into to the back of the ambit 256 and then your Linksys router should connect to the ambit 256.

That's exactly what I'm doing, sorry if I was confusing before.

For wired only: coax -> ambit 256 -> PC
When using wireless: coax -> ambit 256 -> Lnksys -> PC

The cable to my PC I take out of the ambit 256 and put in the Lnksys, and put the Lnksys in the abmit 256 where the PC was connected to. I've done this for as long as I've had the Lnksys, many years, and have never had this problem until very recently. The connection problems also occur whether I'm using the Lnksys or not, so it's not part of the equation from what I can see, I can not use it for days but I still have gotten the problem with the ambit 256 wired connection only.

In the past we've contacted Virgin with concerns to upgrading the speed because the price we pay for broadband gives a faster speed according to their website, but they say that it isn't free because the price we pay is all tied up with the bundle of other stuff like TV/phone package. So I haven't checked for a while, but I realise the price we pay we could have a higher speed connection if we were a new customer, but Virgin have specifically told us on the phone that an upgrade to an equivalent priced increased broadband speed would not be free.

[sollp]

Ring up and get it changed. Simples

[General Maximus]

I don't want to sound condescending but the whole reason why routers were invented is so you don't have to faff around with cables as you have described above. Regardless of whether you are using wireless or not, your Linksys router should always been connected to the ambit 256 and your pc should always be connected to one of the 4 ethernet ports on the back of the router. That is what routers are for and your pc will work 100% fine and you won't notice any difference at all.

There is a very knowledgeable chap called Ben on this forum who works for VM, I have sent him a pm explaining your situation and hopefully he'll get back to you soon. He'll let you what you can and can't have for free. Like I said though, VM will jump at the chance to upgrade you because you are using legacy hardware on a legacy tier. I would bet good money that as soon as you get a shub all speed problems go away.

[Rajie]

Why should the lnksys always be connected if I'm not using it? When I don't need wireless I take it out and connect direct to my PC. I've done this for years with zero problems, all of sudden this disconnection problem began, how can it be the hardware causing it when it hasn't caused such problems in all the years I've used it. And the disconnection problem occurs whether I'm using the lnksys router or not, so it still happens even when that is completely out of the equation.

Originally Posted by sollp

Ring up and get it changed. Simples

As I said above, we tried that and they said they will not change the speed or equipment for free because we have a TV/phone/cable bundle.

[General Maximus]

Think of your internet connection like our road network. You have little residential streets which feed into main streets which feed into dual carriageways and motorways which then go into those massive overpasses and intersections if you think of America. The problem you have got is that in your area you have got over 200 houses using the same connection as you. I talked about congestion in one of my previous posts and the way cable works as a technology and how VM try to relieve congestion is to allow you to use multiple channels (think of them as lanes on a motorway). The problem you have got is that your modem is a single channel modem which means it will only use 1 channel. Think of an 8 lane motorway, you are in lane 1 along with lots of other people and the traffic is crawling to a halt, yet lanes 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 are all free and you could jump into one of those. The reason why you need a shub is because it is an 8 channel modem which means you will use all 8 channels at the same time and if one of them is congested then you will send more traffic over the less channels. At the moment your internet connection is an all or nothing scenario and you need more flexibility and redundancy. There are various factors which can impede the performance of individual channels (never mind how many people are using it) and if something more technical is going on which screws the channel up then that makes you screwed if it is the only channel you can use. Each channel physically provide a maximum speed (I think it is about 55mbits) and the problem you have got is that more and more people are using faster and faster connections and trying to squeeze more and more speed out of every channel. Think about 100 people in your housing estate all on 100mbits trying to use those 8 channels at the same time and there you are trying to take up half a channel just by yourself. That is your problem. You haven't noticed it in the past because maybe the demand wasn't there in your area or the tiers were still sufficiently low but atm VM is upgrading everyone again and the lowest speed is 60mbits which is 3x what you have got.

You need a shub to improve your connection to the internet and as an aside you will also receive a speed upgrade. Your Linksys router can't handle anything over 25mbits like I said earlier so you will also use the shub as your new router and your pc will go straight into the back.

Pretty much everyone is on some sort of package these days, it is what VM live for. Regardless of how old your package is, you should be upgraded to the current cost equivalent. As an example, many moons ago I started out paying £35/month for 512k but that doesn't mean I need to stay on it now. £35/month now gets me 152mbits. Some people are happy to essentially pay more for less (like you atm) but if you ring up they'll discuss the new and updated packages available and you'll find you can get more tv channels, unlimited talk time and fast internet all for your current monthly price.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by Rajie

As I said above, we tried that and they said they will not change the speed or equipment for free because we have a TV/phone/cable bundle.

So to me it sounds like the issue is that any new bundle deal may be a higher cost than you are currently paying, rather than the broadband change itself being chargeable

However, if you are have issues with your broadband connection and don't want to touch the rest of your package you need to report it as a fault with your kit, and if they identify there is a problem they will send out a SuperHub (as VM no longer do standalone modems). Your speed would stay as it is.

[General Maximus]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Your speed would stay as it is.

and you would gain all the benefits of a far more modern and technologically superior modem and router.