Application Throttling/Management

[Andrewcrawford23]

Originally Posted by Broadbandings

Go break a SHA-1 AES-256 VPN / SSL using PFS and IKE and get back to me. The NSA can't so I don't rate your chances.

Find where I talked down to you also, I just explained the technology...

You talk down in the fat the way you where explaining it, like i am complete idiot, if i never knew anything then it be a bit more obvious, i rarely talk in technical terms, one of the thing si am praised for by people i help solve there IT or Network for, i just explain it basic english

Did i say it was easy to do? i said it can be done, and DPI at the isp can in fact decrypt the data but it is not the easist thing to do, they tend to not to do it because it not worth there time. If it was that secure and no problem with it i would not be caring about Phorm i just VPN to something like above.

[Ignitionnet]

You're saying I talked down to you because I used basic english, then saying how you rarely talk in technical terms and are praised for it? I'm rather lost, and you're completely wrong. Properly implemented VPNs cannot be broken by any resource the human race has at this time, if it could there would be no secrets and governments would be merrily listening in to one another's 'secure' communications. They don't and can't.

A bit of reading for you, google these:

Internet Key Exchange
Public Key Cryptography
SHA-1 ( Secure Hashing Algorithm 1 )
AES ( Advanced Encryption Standard )

They will give you some insight as to why VPNs are unbreakable even if you own the network in between, as you will not be able to imitate either side of the conversation and the crypto in use is too strong to be broken within a lifetime.

[Andrewcrawford23]

Originally Posted by Broadbandings

You're saying I talked down to you because I used basic english, then saying how you rarely talk in technical terms and are praised for it? I'm rather lost, and you're completely wrong. Properly implemented VPNs cannot be broken by any resource the human race has at this time, if it could there would be no secrets and governments would be merrily listening in to one another's 'secure' communications. They don't and can't.

A bit of reading for you, google these:

Internet Key Exchange
Public Key Cryptography
SHA-1 ( Secure Hashing Algorithm 1 )
AES ( Advanced Encryption Standard )

They will give you some insight as to why VPNs are unbreakable even if you own the network in between, as you will not be able to imitate either side of the conversation and the crypto in use is too strong to be broken within a lifetime.

I can assure they can be broke i have seen it be down and conversation between the two computers watched (no this was not illegal done it was legal test to prove nothing is 100%). I will say it again IT IS NOT EASY, it is very hard to break it, the only people that will do it is people wanting the information. but i aint going to argue about it, i know what i know you know what you know.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Andrewcrawford23

I can assure they can be broke i have seen it be down and conversation between the two computers watched (no this was not illegal done it was legal test to prove nothing is 100%). I will say it again IT IS NOT EASY, it is very hard to break it, the only people that will do it is people wanting the information. but i aint going to argue about it, i know what i know you know what you know.

You'd best tell the US Government this, as their links to Iraq are satellite and easily interceptable they might want to know that their traffic is insecure.

I have given you the information to find out how, where and why. If someone showed you this they were playing games with it somehow. It is not possible to do a man-in-the-middle on VPN connections, if it were they would be pointless.

Anyways I won't argue about it either as millions of VPN users, governments, security agencies and armed forces know I'm right and trust sensitive data to this technology every day. Step away from the indignation and that 'demonstration' and just have a think about what you're saying, which is that there's no such thing as a secure network link so long as the data traversing it can be intercepted in some way. Then think if that actually makes any kind of sense.

What you probably saw was someone doing an SSL proxy with a badly configured browser with no sense of certifcation authorities. That is not invisible either as those proxies can only be self-signed and the certificates would flag to indicate that they are not properly signed and only have a 1 step CA.

EDIT: Just for you I'll get a packet capture later of me logging onto my online banking, I won't miss a packet, and I'll upload it to an FTP server for anyone who wants to download it and try and break it, I'll make sure I get the full setup etc.

[popper]

Originally Posted by Nemeth

To be fair I'm reading the info in that Allot link, not simply what Trax said.


Ie. prioritising delay-sensitive traffic, which in the case of a consumer ISP is likely to be gaming-related traffic.

And anyway what's the point of throttling traffic that uses a relatively small amount of bandwidth? We're talking bandwidth usage for most games, WoW included, in the single-figures of Kbps.

sure, but your reading and falling for the PR sales pitch, and not considering the real implications, thats were the likes of phorm came from as the DPI vendors want to increase their income so expand and mission creep their firmwares to add new value to their customer base the ISPs not you as the ultimate paying end user.

as regards whats the point of ...., the same has/is said of the internal Virgin media traffic that doesnt even go outside the VM network.

the VM users internal VM websites ,VM ftp, VM mail etc, ALL THAT GETS INCLUDED in the current STM totals, they do include that traffic too, and that quite clearly is wrong from any POV never mind "in good faith" (legal terms) and unneeded, but they do it anyway....

---------- Post added at 16:26 ---------- Previous post was at 16:06 ----------

Originally Posted by HSp8

why pick on newsgroups?

I thought it was the P2P users that caused congestion on the network with uploading

No, thats just a misconception today,its coming from the interested commercial partys the high profile PR campaigns(piracy is bad except when its commercial piracy for prifit from the likes of BT/VM/CPW etc type thinking) etc, and lazy news writers propagate to make headlines they can sell.

P2p hasnt been the top bandwidth use case for a good few years now, Usenet(newsgroups) have always been the far higher data throughput of the internet, and only in the last few years has Video streaming become the new higher data throughput, hence all the recent stories about how they (BBC/youtube etc)dont pay to use our pipes and we want our cut stories.

---------- Post added at 16:43 ---------- Previous post was at 16:26 ----------

Originally Posted by Uncle Peter

Well the big problem is that VM can arbitrarily decide what constitutes "heavy" use as they see fit and may arbitrarily apply Class of Service on whatever type of traffic they see fit (potentially to the detriment of their paying customers), just as they have varied the limits of STM and reserve the right to continue to do so.

Unfortunately the more switched on customers who decide that enough is enough and leave will no doubt be replaced by the unsuspecting people who make a grab for the dangling carrot of 50Mbit, which sounds great on paper.

sure, and they will continue to do so UNTIL YOU (anyone effected) takes Virgin Media to county court and gets a ruleing to stop them and remove these one sided contractual clauses.

just as the bank charges ripoffs got massive airtime and massive news coverage, so will these personal small claims if you care enough to put together a howto step by step to bringing the UK Broadband STM/FUP bad faith to the masses and small claims (VM/BT contract breachs to the UK consumers detriment)

[Sirius]

I now wait with baited breath to see if VM decide that a press release is required over this ?????

#

I bet they dont.

[Ignitionnet]

One like this?

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/article/...throttling-p2p

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Broadbandings

One like this?

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/article/...throttling-p2p

Yep that would be the one.

Wonder if this site is going to ask VM for an update

So the long and short of this is that we are now to be stm'd and on top of that if we still dare to use our connection that we paid for they will reduce that to 512 k , Wow way to go Virgin.

[Fatec]

Originally Posted by Broadbandings

One like this?

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/article/...throttling-p2p

And what bullshiiiiiiiii their official statement turned out to be

you know trax ur name was meantion in webuser over this

[Fatec]

Originally Posted by darthlinux

you know trax ur name was meantion in webuser over this

Yes and i did not appreciate the bad things they tried to say about me, i emailed them but got no response.

[popper]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bliss
Is it legal to use DPI on SSL encryption?

Originally Posted by Toto

Assuming that DPI can break the encryption? doubt it, but we are moving away from the point.

VM AND BT both have Allot (or similar) installed within their network edge at the pops, I am not sure about other ISP's.

i dont think we are Toto, your just useing to much tunnel vision to focus on a single tech point, just because the ISPs have installed the DPI kit to track, collect, process and restrict zings payed for 3d party usenet useage doesnt make it legal.

step back and consider this.

is it legal in the UK/EU to sell you a pound of apples, then give you 3/4 of a pound ,No its not.

is it legal in the UK/EU to sell you a killowatt of power, then give you 3/4 killowatt of power, NO its not.

is it legal in the UK/EU to sell you something thats unfit for purpose and not give you a refund, No its not.

is it legal in the UK/EU to sell you a service and then give you 3/4 or even less, then not give you a refund, no its not.

is it legal in the UK/EU to sell you a service then spy on your personal unique datastream for commercial profit without informed consent, no its not.

see, you just cant get away from this DPI use and long standing consumer legal rights (its just Phorm/NebuAd gave it high profile news coverage) and existing laws, bring it to court and see what the ISPs do, they will remove it before it comes to court if enough people actually fill in the court papers before they run away, as VM/BT etc know full well they cant win a consumer court case given the already existing case law.

Please keep this thread on the topic in hand. Personal insults whether hidden or not will not be tolerated

You tell em zing

Is this set to be a 24 thing or will there be any break ? it is sucky.

Didnt VM just sign a deal to use easynews NNTP backbone? anyone think this could be part of a deal? Easynews now have a 150 gig 15 quid a month HTTP link to the newsgroups will these be hit by App throttling? can this hardware filter port 80 traffic? if not could this be a shrewd move to push usenet customers to Easynews ? ie you give us access to your servers we could force thousands of customers your way?