Are Smart Meters a good thing?

[Stuart]

In a frankly shocking display of common sense for a Tory MP (calm down Arthur), Adam Afriyie suggests that they might not be the best option for consumers, as there are ways to get the advantages they offer (especially allowing consumers to monitor and control their own usage) for a lot less than the £11bn it will cost to replace every meter.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/07...am_afriyie_mp/

Of course, the new meters will enable the utility companies to accurately track usage, and, if necessary, cut off the consumer. All without the need for a person to come and read the meter. It will also allow them to accurately judge the supply needed in a given area. All of this will enable them to reduce their costs, but that's not why we are being told that smart meters are being installed.

[Taf]

Someone, somewhere, is getting a big backhander for pushing these "smart" meters.

I read our meters every week, using a triangular key, my eyes, a pen and paper. A damned sight cheaper than a smart meter.

Would a "smart" meter change my energy use habits? Not all all, as with most people I reckon.

[rhyds]

My problem with smart meters is they're trying to be too smart. All the metering/supply company needs to know is how much electricity you've used for billing purposes. I wouldn't mind that being relayed back via powerline networking or the meter's own mobile connection (if available). I'd grudgingly accept a connection to my broadband, but only if I was to have full control of the meter's networking settings.

The problem is that if meters are to have a remote disconnection facility then it MUST be secured (and I mean properly secured against internal and external cracking)and ONLY available to specific persons within a metering/supply company (I'm thinking names, senior persons, not Joe Bloggs in a callcentre). Also, I foresee that the meters will be capable of "demand management", or put simply, remote managed powercuts when our coal fired power stations are shut down (down to individual house levels), or you'd find the oven wouldn't power up at 6pm because everyone else in the street got there before you...

[tweetiepooh]

Don't smart meters also allow the monitoring of exported power too? Currently we get paid for 50 of what we generate whether we export or use it so we run a lot of stuff during peak generation period.

[Qtx]

Seen some energy bills last week where the people were being charged more for their standing charge than they were for their actual energy usage. Don't think smart meters will help these people at all, apart from more being added on to their bill to pay for them.

The more efficient people become with their energy use, the more the suppliers will increase the cost per unit to keep their profits up. We have already seen this to some extent as buildings have got more insulation and energy efficient items. So there will be no real gain for the customer.

[banjo]

Damn good idea I think. Just signed up for smart meters to be fitted.

[qasdfdsaq]

Originally Posted by Taf

Someone, somewhere, is getting a big backhander for pushing these "smart" meters. I read our meters every week, using a triangular key, my eyes, a pen and paper. A damned sight cheaper than a smart meter. Would a "smart" meter change my energy use habits? Not all all, as with most people I reckon.

The cost of making a meter "smart" is negligible these days compared to the cost of the meter itself.

Plus, you read your meters every week? How long does it take you to do? 2 minutes? Which adds up to, 2 hours a year or so?

Two hours of my time is worth more than the incremental cost of a smart meter, oddly enough.

---------- Post added at 21:31 ---------- Previous post was at 21:25 ----------

Originally Posted by rhyds

My problem with smart meters is they're trying to be too smart. All the metering/supply company needs to know is how much electricity you've used for billing purposes. I wouldn't mind that being relayed back via powerline networking or the meter's own mobile connection (if available).

Some say it's a problem, some say it's an advantage. Because of how flexible general-purpose computing chips are these days, once you have the hardware in place you can do just about anything (including remotely upgrading and adding more features). If the capability is there, might as well use it any way you can.

I'd grudgingly accept a connection to my broadband, but only if I was to have full control of the meter's networking settings.

Smart meters are unlikely to ever use your home broadband for anything other than backup, and most likely not even that.

[progers]

They're a good marketing tool, the suppliers know when you are in by the leccy you use - what's to stop them selling that information to marketing companies? For this reason, other European countries have thrown them out.

Originally Posted by progers

They're a good marketing tool, the suppliers know when you are in by the leccy you use - what's to stop them selling that information to marketing companies? For this reason, other European countries have thrown them out.

Which European countries have thrown them out?

[progers]

In Austria and Germany, they are no longer compulsory due to concerns about data security and the lack of savings

[rhyds]

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

Some say it's a problem, some say it's an advantage. Because of how flexible general-purpose computing chips are these days, once you have the hardware in place you can do just about anything (including remotely upgrading and adding more features). If the capability is there, might as well use it any way you can.

Smart meters are unlikely to ever use your home broadband for anything other than backup, and most likely not even that.

I'm still not convinced of the benefits. How does the meter know what appliances I'm using make up the 1kw draw? (or do they depend on sensors on major appliances). My meter is an old-fashioned disc type, and I can tell at a glance if my usage is low, medium or "Jeez that's turning a bit quick..."

The other thing is that I know of many electricity supplies in areas with precisely zero mobile phone reception (deep valleys etc) How will these "phone home"?

Originally Posted by progers

In Austria and Germany, they are no longer compulsory due to concerns about data security and the lack of savings

That's a big difference from being 'thrown out'.....

[Qtx]

Outsmarting the smart meter

Interesting idea of transparent proxying and sending back bogus readings to the energy company once you get past the fact they are pushing their honeypot/traffic monitoring device. Going to be much more investigating of these devices as they get more popular.

Imagine a thief being able to sit outside your house, get in to your wifi and then in to the smart meter that tells him what goodies are connected. Could make a decision which house to burgle based on that :P

I think the idea that people will change their usage habbits is flawed, most people simple wont change anything.

[qasdfdsaq]

Originally Posted by Qtx

Outsmarting the smart meter Interesting idea of transparent proxying and sending back bogus readings to the energy company once you get past the fact they are pushing their honeypot/traffic monitoring device. Going to be much more investigating of these devices as they get more popular. Imagine a thief being able to sit outside your house, get in to your wifi and then in to the smart meter that tells him what goodies are connected. Could make a decision which house to burgle based on that :P

Presumably that doesn't work on GSM connected smart-meters (that said fake GSM base stations aren't hard to create either), plus why aren't they using TLS?