papers tomorrow Coalition roads motorways and trunk roads to be leased+tolls

[mertle]

Originally Posted by martyh

The problem with the M6 toll road is that it is only realy effective during rush hours if you want to by pass birmingham ,any other time it doesn't really provide any time saving for the cost and couple that with the huge increase of traffic on other roads as road users use them instead because of financial reasons and the road rapidly becomes unprofitable .

problem is you cant deny alternatives you cant force it on the motorists.

The other is out pricing the market is another stupid issues companies naturally want there investment back but sometimes they never will or its too long in coming.

Take the humber bridge it was never ever going to be financial viable tolls dearer the M6 if your in haulage/transportation goods or buses. Still it dont make enough to fund debt management and its maintenance.

I doubt if they even half the tolls which is planned will make jot difference as you goto try double traffic just to ofset the cut. If the currently funding not enough then realistically triple or quad the volume is needed. Its not the car traffic too they need haulers those who pay higher end toll.

When you consider this bridge if you need to get hull from lincolnshire cant be avoided. You can go via goole or even be mad enough m180 to roundabout then m18, m62 but costs more money to do so in fuel usage.

This there prices at present before it will be halfed

motorcycles 1.30
Cars 3.00
goods vehicle depending on weight 5.40, 12.10,16.20, 20.30

All one way costs.

This quite camparable to charges m6 both been utter failures one M6 companies planning to bail as they not getting enough funds. The other government had to bail it out due to interests on debt not enough funds being collected due to high prices but feel more to it.

Now these the only 2 guides of toll system in uk. As both in trouble I cant see any system working.

As matter interest where do you suggest those tolls to go what price point do you market these things.

Originally Posted by mertle

problem is you cant deny alternatives you cant force it on the motorists.

The other is out pricing the market is another stupid issues companies naturally want there investment back but sometimes they never will or its too long in coming.

Take the humber bridge it was never ever going to be financial viable tolls dearer the M6 if your in haulage/transportation goods or buses. Still it dont make enough to fund debt management and its maintenance.

I doubt if they even half the tolls which is planned will make jot difference as you goto try double traffic just to ofset the cut. If the currently funding not enough then realistically triple or quad the volume is needed. Its not the car traffic too they need haulers those who pay higher end toll.

When you consider this bridge if you need to get hull from lincolnshire cant be avoided. You can go via goole or even be mad enough m180 to roundabout then m18, m62 but costs more money to do so in fuel usage.

This there prices at present before it will be halfed

motorcycles 1.30
Cars 3.00
goods vehicle depending on weight 5.40, 12.10,16.20, 20.30

All one way costs.

This quite camparable to charges m6 both been utter failures one M6 companies planning to bail as they not getting enough funds. The other government had to bail it out due to interests on debt not enough funds being collected due to high prices but feel more to it.

Now these the only 2 guides of toll system in uk. As both in trouble I cant see any system working.

As matter interest where do you suggest those tolls to go what price point do you market these things.

The problem at the moment is that any toll roads/bridges/tunnels are just single items they are not part of a tolled network and so are pretty much useless at money making .

[mertle]

Originally Posted by martyh

The problem at the moment is that any toll roads/bridges/tunnels are just single items they are not part of a tolled network and so are pretty much useless at money making .

You would have to take haulage and public transport out this costing else it would harm the economy with food/goods going through roof. The net result car traffic would then not make the thing viable for private enteprise.

Anyway hit on my google search a RAC survey on road use one things is about pay as you go ie tolls motorways major roads. Its clear this would not be supported.

http://www.racfoundation.org/assets/...-062010pdf.pdf

Shows the government going have difficult time selling this to the motorists.

Originally Posted by mertle

You would have to take haulage and public transport out this costing else it would harm the economy with food/goods going through roof. The net result car traffic would then not make the thing viable for private enteprise.

Anyway hit on my google search a RAC survey on road use one things is about pay as you go ie tolls motorways major roads. Its clear this would not be supported.

http://www.racfoundation.org/assets/...-062010pdf.pdf

Shows the government going have difficult time selling this to the motorists.

I agree that haulage and would need special treatment .It would be unrealistic to expect a haulage company to pay for VED ,operators licence and fuel tax on top of road tolls for motorways .Possibly greatly reducing VED for haulage companies.Public transport not so much an issue as they don't go on motorways anyway as a rule

[mertle]

Originally Posted by martyh

I agree that haulage and would need special treatment .It would be unrealistic to expect a haulage company to pay for VED ,operators licence and fuel tax on top of road tolls for motorways .Possibly greatly reducing VED for haulage companies.Public transport not so much an issue as they don't go on motorways anyway as a rule

Some do not many national coaches I would say is public transport which do but grey area if you call it public transport now. Ours does for local interlink rural bus services only for one junction as its A road that turns to motorway.

Problem once you exemp certain traffic or subsidise it dont become viable for either business or government. The shortfall would have to be met by higher charges.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Chris

For longer journeys I traverse between the M6 and the M1 using the A50 between Stoke and Derby or just take a punt on the M6 through Birmingham.

Do that when ever i go down to Robs for a NTHWgaming Lan, Far quicker and less stressful than going anywhere near Birmingham

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by martyh

Not really ,profit in business is created by efficiency ,government run services like the road network are "not for profit" ventures .If this happens then i bet you won't see a forest of cones on a toll road on bank holidays ,you will see a increase in night time works ,we may even get the A1 dueled all the way to scotland currently scrapped by central government due to cost but a private company would make a killing

Or the profits are made by forming cabals and milking the customer and I thought the idea was to provide competition, well there's only one Mtwentywhatever and you can guarantee the independent regulator will be as useless as the energy one.

---------- Post added at 16:10 ---------- Previous post was at 16:07 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

The problem at the moment is that any toll roads/bridges/tunnels are just single items they are not part of a tolled network and so are pretty much useless at money making .

The QE2 bridge makes millions every day and we were told once it was paid for it'd be free to use...

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

The QE2 bridge makes millions every day and we were told once it was paid for it'd be free to use...

just to be pedantic the tolls on the QE2 bridge ended on 31st march 2002 ,after that date the bridge was subject to road user charging under the transport act 2000 which also covers congestion charging in london .So it's not a toll it's a charge and don't ask me what the difference is

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by martyh

just to be pedantic the tolls on the QE2 bridge ended on 31st march 2002 ,after that date the bridge was subject to road user charging under the transport act 2000 which also covers congestion charging in london .So it's not a toll it's a charge and don't ask me what the difference is

Difference is everytime we let government get into bed with private business we're the only ones that get screwed, the energy companies, PFI, Annington Housing, the railways etc etc etc everytime we are told it'll be good for us and each time it's basically a give away that we pay through the nose for and if we stand for it again we must be the mugs they take us for.

Just wish public transport was cheaper and better run.. Driving has become a pain in the bum.

[devilincarnate]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Driving has become a pain in the bum.

You need a comfy seat

[mertle]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Just wish public transport was cheaper and better run.. Driving has become a pain in the bum.

we can blame another privitisation the buses. Sheffield had the best system 5p anywhere people used it in there droves till thatcher snatcher turned up. Now we got here nemesis he shafting the country further than she ever dared on some premesis the country broke.

Thats one thing needs re-nationalising the bus service while stupid idiots in charge we got no chance.

What cameron on is drugged or drunk apparantly championed the water privatisation on why the roads should go the same. Noticed not similar like for like comparision like train system fiasco. When we nit pick the water privatisation is fiasco yes maybe the profits. Why there been no investment into our infrastructure. Alot been hopeless in repairs to leaks. We would be not looking at hospipeban if they upgraded the system. Another stupid privatisation. I am half expecting taxation on air exhailed we doing everything else.

I think he definate needs the white coats and straight jacket took to the nearest mental hospital he gone stark raving bonkers.

Like the privatised trains we will no doubt be subsidising rubbish to more than what we was paying before privitisation. If cameron thinks he going give his buddies 6bn to nick in the sunset then its about time finally country wakes up. As the profits go into these rich the investment, repairs budget will shrink. Government will then subsidise these garbage companies as they fleese country bleed it dry. Its whats happening in the trains some other privatised companies. Very few ended up better service most ended up going cap in hand to the government for a bailout.

You can literally see the future it looks horrible.

Someone should ask cameron why no money for the roads wheres the VED and fuel duty surely you took cake to do what it says on the tin.

This is comment found spot on it is

No its the standard government con. They create tax to do things but then don't spend the money on it. They then create more taxes that would seem to cover the same thing. You then find you are not seeing any gain for what you are paying in. As things decline, they then declare they will privatise it. At that point, you are still paying government for not providing what you paid for, and will be being asked for more money from the private company. When the privatised companies fail to provide whats needed , government will then turn around and say its not our fault.

[Arthurgray50@blu]

All this is to save the Tories ( l won't mention Libs, as they are just puppets for Cameron) spending money, We pay enough road tax and fuel duty in this country which should be covering this building costs, but Cameron is creaming this off.

We have a toll road already in the midlands, we have toll bridges which make a fortune each day. If the government introduce this on new motorways, what will happen if its a success, they will try there hardest to implement on ALL motorways.

This charge will effect major companies, that use the road for haulage, prices will go up and force companies out of business.

Now what other tax can they think of, oh yes, how many we use the loos each day, new tyres - a tax can go on that, MOTs can go up, or how many prisoners go to prison each day, we can pay a tax on how many - that's how silly this government would be in a bid to get more tax out of us.

Arthur, the only money the Government has is what it gets from taxes - so if it saves money, it is saving us, the taxpayers, money....