Coming soon to Virgin TV (2012) Vol. 1

[Wicked_and_Crazy]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

What happened when Sky removed their channels from VM in 2007/2008?

They removed Sky one, not every Sky channel

[MaverickJesus]

Sky withold services as 'exclusives' because they think in the long run they will earn more money from customers swapping to Sky to get said exclusives, than they would if the just allowed them to buy it on someone elses platform. Smaller number of people accessing it overall, but the amount they earn per person increases.

Both strategies have their merits.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by andy_m

Correct MM. The company exists for profit, and is making one. You can't argue with their strategy when it is delivering the only result that matters.

Company directors are legally obliged to maximise profit, not just make one.

Originally Posted by Wicked_and_Crazy

i never said they were clever. Its all about comparing TV customer numbers between Sky and VM for the simple reason they cant compare profits for TV revenue only. One upmanship

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I think the Sky opinion is that they will gain customers by denying channels to others as they will be forced to use Sky for pay TV, that and their general spiteful attitude.

You think?? No one forces Sky to sell anything to VM. If they chose not to renew any contracts for Sky channels i wonder what would happen the the number of TV subscribers on VM? (Just hypothisising)

Yes they do. Rules exist to ensure Sky do not abuse their monopoly eg they were forced to offer Sky Sports HD1 and Sky Sports HD2 to competitors.

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

What happened when Sky removed their channels from VM in 2007/2008?

VM took the unprecedented decision to call Skys' bluff and withdrew the channels. VM had to offer sweeteners for people to stay and had extra funds for other things eg VOD.

The TV part of the business plan of VM survived and a deal was eventually struck for their return.

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Originally Posted by Wicked_and_Crazy

They removed Sky one, not every Sky channel

Incorrect, all Sky basic channels were removed. The only ones that remained were the premium channels, as they were covered by a different agreement and rules known as "the rate card".

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Wicked_and_Crazy

They removed Sky one, not every Sky channel

It was more than just Sky One, it was Sky One, Sky2, Sky News, Sky Sports News, Sky Travel and Sky Travel Extra (the latter 2 have shut down anyway). Which meant for a time VM cutomers could not see LOST and 24, much to the amusment of Sky!



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Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Company directors are legally obliged to maximise profit, not just make one.



Yes they do. Rules exist to ensure Sky do not abuse their monopoly eg they were forced to offer Sky Sports HD1 and Sky Sports HD2 to competitors.



VM took the unprecedented decision to call Skys' bluff and withdrew the channels. VM had to offer sweeteners for people to stay and had extra funds for other things eg VOD.

The TV part of the business plan of VM survived and a deal was eventually struck for their return.

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Incorrect, all Sky basic channels were removed. The only ones that remained were the premium channels, as they were covered by a different agreement and rules known as "the rate card".

Sky are making less profits by not offering more of its HD channels to VM!

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by andy_m

People ended up negotiating big discounts with Virgin that still apply today. My friend still gets Sky Sports for free after he lost Sky One for a relatively short period of time. The irony is that he knows any change to his account will mean he loses this discount and as a result Virgin have zero chance of getting him on Tivo.

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

That means that all VM will do is stop cusotmers from going to Sky, thus defeating their attempts to beat VM

Has your friend got V+?

I have been informed by a source within VM that the current strategy is for a gradual cessation of these deals where the company makes little or no profit and even in some cases makes a loss.

[MaverickJesus]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

It was more than just Sky One, it was Sky One, Sky2, Sky News, Sky Sports News, Sky Travel and Sky Travel Extra (the latter 2 have shut down anyway). Which meant for a time VM cutomers could not see LOST and 24, much to the amusment of Sky!



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Sky are making less profits by not offering more of its HD channels to VM!

How so? You are assuming that Sky make a decent profit margin on those channels, which for Premium channels in particular is usually wrong. They make money from crap channels like QVC giving them a ton of income, and they only way they can make money that way is by driving up customer numbers. How can they do that? Exclusives!

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

It was more than just Sky One, it was Sky One, Sky2, Sky News, Sky Sports News, Sky Travel and Sky Travel Extra (the latter 2 have shut down anyway). Which meant for a time VM cutomers could not see LOST and 24, much to the amusment of Sky!





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Sky are making less profits by not offering more of its HD channels to VM!

I agree, some people will not defect from VM etc, no matter what. Sky are too blinded by their greedy spiteful way of doing business to see this though!

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

I have been informed by a source within VM that the current strategy is for a gradual cessation of these deals where the company makes little or no profit and even in some cases makes a loss.

So, either more price rises or less channels?

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

I have been informed by a source within VM that the current strategy is for a gradual cessation of these deals where the company makes little or no profit and even in some cases makes a loss.

To be honest, that was pretty much a given, I don't think 'a source' was needed to know that

What company would want to keep customers which caused them a loss?

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Originally Posted by Alan Fry

So, either more price rises or less channels?

I assume he meant individual customer deals, not channel deals

So those deep discount Relation deals that some still have from a couple of years ago

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

So, either more price rises or less channels?

Not necessarily.

[Itshim]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

To be honest, that was pretty much a given, I don't think 'a source' was needed to know that

What company would want to keep customers which caused them a loss?

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I assume he meant individual customer deals, not channel deals

So those deep discount Relation deals that some still have from a couple of years ago

So lets be clear.
Kit & lines etc all in and running - surely the main expense.The longer in the less the upstart cost becomes. The cost of supplying the TV ,BB & Phone must in its self be low. & I guess given Virgins phone line rental no use or very low use would not incur a loss, OK little or no profit but not a loss. So how to you make a loss on a customer? accept that perhaps its a low profit per unit but a loss? The support staff .If that the case the whole business model is unsustainable surely.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by Itshim

So lets be clear.
Kit & lines etc all in and running - surely the main expense.The longer in the less the upstart cost becomes. The cost of supplying the TV ,BB & Phone must in its self be low. & I guess given Virgins phone line rental no use or very low use would not incur a loss, OK little or no profit but not a loss. So how to you make a loss on a customer? accept that perhaps its a low profit per unit but a loss? The support staff .If that the case the whole business model is unsustainable surely.

Never said that Virgin make a loss on customers - I was saying that there is no need to quote 'a source' for a concept that is basic business sense.

Saying that though Ntl used to run accounts at a loss - as in some cases the services cost a minus figure each month i.e. the credits applied were greater than the services cost. Virgin spent a lot of time sorting those out.

However even now I'm sure there are some deals on a short term basis that mean that Virgin are running the account at cost in order to keep a customer

[dav]

The retention deals are effective though. Mine is the main thing keeping me with VM. Currently, if VM cancelled my discount, Sky would be cheaper and offer more. If they do ever get around to cancelling my discount, it would probably mean a lost customer. (And if OFCOM grow a pair and kick the Murdochs out then it would means a little less conscience wrestling, making the decision even easier)

[Itshim]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Never said that Virgin make a loss on customers - I was saying that there is no need to quote 'a source' for a concept that is basic business sense.

Saying that though Ntl used to run accounts at a loss - as in some cases the services cost a minus figure each month i.e. the credits applied were greater than the services cost. Virgin spent a lot of time sorting those out.

However even now I'm sure there are some deals on a short term basis that mean that Virgin are running the account at cost in order to keep a customer

Not the best idea a low profit yes loss no. ( hi it might be me for all I know)

[carlwaring]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

What happened when Sky removed their channels from VM in 2007/2008?

Not a lot

Originally Posted by andy_m

The irony is that he knows any change to his account will mean he loses this discount and as a result Virgin have zero chance of getting him on Tivo.

Has he asked? I'm sure he'll be okay. He's adding a box, not changing his services.