Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[dav]

I noticed the VM logo missing too.

I'm on the webchat. Submitted 3 questions. Nada.

[Ravenheart]

The Spin-O-Matic BS generator has probably broke down and they've got the tech team working on it right now.

[dav]

....and now he's gone to bed.

Weak.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Sirius

Q: I have just joined and might have missed this question so please bear with me. You say if i opt out i will not have my private surfing data monitored. The only way an opt out will stop me cancelling every product i have with Virgin is a confirmation that should i opt out that NONE of my data what so ever will be monitored by any equipment installed at your or Virgin media's head ends or pop sites. In other words a OPT OUT means my data never touches any Phorm installed equipment between me and the Internet ?
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whats the betting that does not get answerd

this was his answer.

The particular server or software is less important than who controls them. The ISP will own the equipment but it may be running software from Phorm. However, the ISP has full visibility of the data that is flowing, and full control over it. As I said, the bottom line is that the ISP ensures that if you opt out, your data is never passed to Phorm.

so read yes your data goes to the Phorm kit in the Virgin POP site.

Yes Virgin will have full visibility of all my surfing habits via Phorm Deep Packet Inspection software. The question will be

Do i trust Virgin Media with that data. The answer is no due to the fact they are selling my data to a spyware and root kit company.

Could this company have a backdoor program sending the data anyway no matter what Virgin Do.

Would you trust that arrangement ????

So it looks like i will be moving to BE.

[JackSon]

At the beginning of the session, this was thrown into the pot by one of those present:

Originally Posted by 007

will you still continue even though ISP's are pulling out

The official answer was:

Originally Posted by KentErtugrul

No indication at all that any ISPs are pulling out. They have polled their customers and their customers want this. I would like to make it very clear that nobody is being forced into this and this is a clear and absolute optional offer to everbody. Nobody has to do it

I then asked in response to this:

Originally Posted by Jackson

Obviously, a poll undertaken by an ISP on it's customer base is down to the discretion of said ISP so that is not something I will ask Phorm to quantify. However, when you say "their customers want this", are you not inclined to agree, in light of the announcement by TalkTalk regarding a default opt-out and re-route based on their customers correspondence/feedback, that the customers of TalkTalk at least, perhaps don't want this? After all, if a previous poll undertaken said the customers were in favour then they would have ignored the against moniroty.

An hour passes and it was not addressed. Ah well.

Having said that, does anybody recall being surveyed about wanting less adverts and phishing from VM in the past, no matter in how vague a context?

I have a text file transcript if anybody would be interested. PM me a throw away e-mail addess and I will send it, or I can post it all up here if there are no objections?

[Florence]

My question didn't get answered he seemed to leave just after it :P

Q: The system is similar to ellacoya technology and streamshield except they are used to limit speeds when downloading from P2P at peak times. Phorm is more intrusive plus will slow down the internet experience. Am I correct
Your question has been submitted to the moderator.

Looks like I move to Bt line not getting in with this.

[lucevans]

Would someone please post e-mail links for who to write to at Virgin Media regarding this Phorm business? I know it sounds weak, but the VM customer zone site is such a pile, I can never find anything useful on it, particularly when it comes to contacting them (come to think of it, that's probably what they're aiming for...).
I understand that the only legally provable way of contacting them is by registered snail mail, but until I can get that letter knocked into shape, I'd like to fire off as many e-mails as I can to VM on this subject to make sure they get the message that it's not going away...

Ta.

[Florence]

Just how legal is this when those on the network going through Webwise are only shown adverts from thew OIX platform and any adverts on other websites you visit are removed from view?

[dav]

Originally Posted by Florence

Just how legal is this when those on the network going through Webwise are only shown adverts from thew OIX platform and any adverts on other websites you visit are removed from view?

That isn't what is happening.
A website may have 50% place holders for OIX ads and 50% for non OIX.
If a site hasn't registered with OIX and there are no OIX placeholders, the page will get ignored on its way back to you and all ad space will be non OIX as the designer intended.

[lucevans]

Originally Posted by Florence

Just how legal is this when those on the network going through Webwise are only shown adverts from thew OIX platform and any adverts on other websites you visit are removed from view?

Florence, as I understand the OIX system, other ads are not replaced. Phorm/OIX will buy ad panes on websites, then charge advertisers more than the standard "hit-or-miss" advertising rates to put their ads in those panes only on the screens of individuals whose Phorm profile indicates they are interested in that category of product. The net result is that different people viewing that same page will see a different advert at that position on the page depending on their Phorm profile. This is how Phorm hope to make money. Anyone who does not have a Phorm profile (i.e. opted-out, or not with an ISP that has signed-up to Phorm) will see a random ad at that position on that page, much as we all do now. There will continue to be other ad-panes on that webpage that are not owned or controlled by Phorm/OIX, but these will not be interfered with in any way by the Phorm system (although the Phorm hardware in the ISPs network could do this, it is clearly illegal and would result in jail sentences for company execs involved.) It is obviously Phorm's hope that if their system takes off, over time product sellers will abandon the other "non-targetted" advertising panes (companies) and bring their advertising to the Phorm/OIX platform because the selling success rate would (allegedly) be higher.

[Largerme]

Having said that, does anybody recall being surveyed about wanting less adverts and phishing from VM in the past, no matter in how vague a context?

I have done surveys for VM and the question regarding this was misleading, I can’t remember the exact phrasing, but it was something like this:-

“Would you prefer more relevant adverts as apposed to irrelevant ones”?

Now my obvious answer was ‘Yes’.

Had they mentioned using ‘Spyware / Adware’ to achieve this then my answer would have been a most definite NO.

Originally Posted by Kent CEO of Phorm

They have polled their customers and their customers want this.

Oh really - that's strange I don't remember being asked if I wanted this by my ISP... Anybody else get polled?

[JackSon]

Originally Posted by Largerme

I have done surveys for VM and the question regarding this was misleading, I can’t remember the exact phrasing, but it was something like this:-

“Would you prefer more relevant adverts as apposed to irrelevant ones”?

Now my obvious answer was ‘Yes’.

Had they mentioned using ‘Spyware / Adware’ to achieve this then my answer would have been a most definite NO.

I figured it would be along those lines, I suppose it is not hard to manufacture that into a statement that we would like a product like Phorm. As you say, misleading.

Not a survey I think anyone could use to green flag a specific product without having first examined it, like the position we found ouselves.

[mertle]

Originally Posted by diddy1

I was Just on my way home listening to Chris Evans and the news reader on there spoke to the CEO of Phorm and according to him, that we the public have voted for this in huge amounts with our internet providers with all the on line polls we have filled in?????

She asked him why there was so many objections in forums against this if that was the case, he replied if any thing Phorm have not explained there self fully to what they can offer, He also stated that there is no way any one could be identified as we all get this random number.

The news reader said to him so if any person was looking at terrorism would they inform the police, his answer was no because they dont hold any information.

Am i convinced that this guy was telling the truth.... Not a chance in a million years would i believe him.

He also stated they were soon to go live, and we would know when it happens as we would see a a page filled with what ever garbage they want us to believe.

I would love to hear this guy in a debate with more internet savvy people rather than some ill informed news reader.

I would not be suprised at these so called on line polls are his figment of his imagination. Apart from this one NOT seen any on places like VM website. If there out there no doubt there so called PR team are spamming them to distort them.

This PR team getting more like the government spin doctors who told us iraqis had weapons of mass destruction.

Instead having a message mailboxyou have mail.

Maybe we should now have you have phorm


The does seem very big conflict how close we are to going live.

VM seem to be trying to give an impression its not that close but phorm are actually doing the oposite.

I doubt we will be told despite VM assurances especially if its deemed not to be breaching rules.

[Florence]

Originally Posted by Mick

Oh really - that's strange I don't remember being asked if I wanted this by my ISP... Anybody else get polled?

No I never had a vote on the poll can I have my vote now a no

On another note just decided after visiting webwise to find and delete its cookie gues what my webwise search brought up...