How do you feel about copyright infringement, piracy and general law breaking?

supremus · 30-11-2008, 21:29

After seeing a number of posters getting surprisingly upset about something as relatively harmless as cable piracy in the Virgin Media News section, I thought there might be an interesting discussion to be had about people's views on piracy, copyright infringement and law breaking in general. I certainly respect someone's right to get all sanctimonious about someone else leeching free cable, but that level of respect would probably drop a little, if that person was a regular law breaker himself... or herself.

As someone who couldn't swear to every single MP3 on his iPod being entirely legit, I'd certainly find it difficult to work up a genuine sense of outrage about someone else leeching free cable, and if I were to look through my hard drive and maybe find the latest episodes of my favorite US TV shows before their UK air date, I imagine I'd feel like a huge hypocrite for berating someone else for leeching free cable, and if I were the sort of person who might occasionally break really serious laws, like speed limits and the sort, I'd probably feel compelled to keep my trap shut about something as comparatively unimportant as cable piracy. Either that or come up with a really brilliant explanation for how putting other people's lives at risk is less offensive than watching free television.

So that brings me to the big question. Considering that the vast majority of posters around here probably break either speed limits, copyright or other laws on a fairly regular basis, why the outrage over cable piracy? And if you're merely a movie/mp3/TV show downloading speed freak, how do you justify those particular offenses?

Please keep the discussion civil. No name calling, swearing or nudity allowed.

30-11-2008, 21:36

As long as no one does me or mine any harm I do not interfere with what people do.

My biggest problem is those who broadcast that they break the law then go out of their way to claim they are innocent. Please do not try to blag me I am to smart to fall for it

In my time I have done all but one of the things in your vote but I am not saying which

As for justifying myself who to? no one here needs me to

papa smurf · 30-11-2008, 21:41

as aVM network tech i can tell you that 1 chipped stb can knock out an entire node up to 600 customers .thats why we hunt them down like dogs,its not big and its not clever ,and vm techs dont take any prisoners .

re the vote can one pick more than one option cos i get free cable and as for the rest i'll take the 5th amendment if i may

supremus · 30-11-2008, 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by David F

As for justifying myself who to? no one here needs me to

Sure, the justification question was aimed more at the sort of people who might break certain laws, and then berate others for far lesser offenses. How do people justify that to themselves?

Russ · 30-11-2008, 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by supremus

Sure, the justification question was aimed more at the sort of people who might break certain laws, and then berate others for far lesser offenses. How do people justify that to themselves?

OK so the purpose of this thread is for you to point out what you consider to be hypocrisy.

Broken pencil time.

**Hugh** · 30-11-2008, 21:49

Love the emotionally loaded words in the OP
"surprisingly upset"
"relatively harmless"
"sanctimonious"
"regular law breaker"

and then the deal-breaker -
"Considering that the vast majority of posters around here probably break either speed limits, copyright or other laws on a fairly regular basis"

Who the hell do you think you are to judge and slander other people that you have never met from behind the anonymity of a nom-de-internet - you appear to be judging others by your own standards, and setting up loaded questions for others to fulfill your weird idea of humour.

And as usual, after insulting others and being derogatory, you finish off with the hypocritical caveat of "Please keep the discussion civil. No name calling, swearing or nudity allowed".

You, sir/madam/heshe/neuter are peurile and sanctimonious prig* (imho).

*(and no, that is not a mis-spelling)

Tezcatlipoca · 30-11-2008, 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by supremus

And if you're merely a movie/mp3/TV show downloading speed freak, how do you justify those particular offenses?

While all of those = copyright theft, I do not think that - morally/ethically - they are equal.

If you download a movie, you're not paying the DVD/cinema cost.

If you download an album, you're not paying the CD/iTunes/Napster cost.

TV though? Not the same league, IMO (although yes it's still the same under the law). If you pay your TV Licence, & you pay your Sky/VM sub. or whatever, I don't see the big deal. No one is losing out, you're just watching something earlier than if you had waited for the UK broadcast.

"Done illegal drugs" also seems a bit too general to me.

Gary L · 30-11-2008, 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by foreverwar

You, sir/madam/heshe/neuter are peurile and sanctimonious prig* (imho).

*(and no, that is not a mis-spelling)

Did you vote? what is a heshe?

Pia · 30-11-2008, 22:00

I voted on 4 of the above

Gary L · 30-11-2008, 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pia

I voted on 4 of the above

I voted on all 6 to get the numbers up. I lied about the 2

supremus · 30-11-2008, 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

as aVM network tech i can tell you that 1 chipped stb can knock out an entire node up to 600 customers .thats why we hunt them down like dogs,its not big and its not clever ,and vm techs dont take any prisoners.

From what I'm told, VM techs are often the ones supplying chipped boxes. Several people I know have been offered chipped boxes by local VM techs. As far as I know, all of them refused, preferring instead to pay for Sky.

Seriously, though, I don't really get the impression that VM are really being that pro-active about putting a stop to this. Partly because it's difficult and expensive, but from what I've been told by people in the business, although not working for VM, because many pirates do pay for the minimum service, and often take other packages like phone and broadband, while leeching the television service VM doesn't make much money on anyway. Add to that the fact that it isn't an offense the legal system considers particularly serious, compared to some of the other issues I mentioned, and I think my description of cable leeching was fairly accurate.

Quote:

re the vote can one pick more than one option cos i get free cable and as for the rest i'll take the 5th amendment if i may

Yep, it's multiple choice, anonymous voting. Go nuts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

OK so the purpose of this thread is for you to point out what you consider to be hypocrisy.

No. Is the purpose of this post to drive a legitimate discussion off topic with your personal grudge?

Quote:

Broken pencil time.

I use pens. Pencils are for people who know they're going to make mistakes. Let's get back on topic?

Quote:

Originally Posted by foreverwar

and then the deal-breaker -
"Considering that the vast majority of posters around here probably break either speed limits, copyright or other laws on a fairly regular basis"

Who the hell do you think you are to judge and slander other people that you have never met from behind the anonymity of a nom-de-internet - you appear to be judging others by your own standards, and setting up loaded questions for others to fulfill your weird idea of humour.

Please try to keep this civil. Statistics clearly show that most people have at some point broken some of these laws, the speed limit is particularly common.

Quote:

You, sir/madam/heshe/neuter are peurile and sanctimonious prig* (imho)

I guess I should have added "breaking forum rules" to the list.

papa smurf · 30-11-2008, 22:10

"From what I'm told, VM techs are often the ones supplying chipped boxes. Several people I know have been offered chipped boxes by local VM techs. As far as I know, all of them refused, preferring instead to pay for Sky."

contract partners maybe vm techs doubtful it causes to many head aches

---------- Post added at 22:10 ---------- Previous post was at 22:09 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pia

I voted on 4 of the above

5 i've been around a while

supremus · 30-11-2008, 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

contract partners maybe vm techs doubtful it causes to many head aches

That's possible, i suppose. I couldn't say for sure. So is your personal view that cable pirates are worse than TV/games/movie pirates or speedsters, because of the potential for service disruption to other customers?

papa smurf · 30-11-2008, 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by supremus

That's possible, i suppose. I couldn't say for sure. So is your personal view that cable pirates are worse than TV/games/movie pirates or speedsters, because of the potential for service disruption to other customers?

it just makes my day harder ......

supremus · 30-11-2008, 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

it just makes my day harder ......

Fair enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt D

While all of those = copyright theft, I do not think that - morally/ethically - they are equal.

I suppose not, but the way people justify it to themselves might be?

Quote:

If you download a movie, you're not paying the DVD/cinema cost.

If you download an album, you're not paying the CD/iTunes/Napster cost.

You might have downloaded a movie or album you wouldn't have bought or gone to see at the cinema anyway. Doesn't make any difference in the eyes of the law.

Quote:

TV though? Not the same league, IMO (although yes it's still the same under the law). If you pay your TV Licence, & you pay your Sky/VM sub. or whatever, I don't see the big deal. No one is losing out, you're just watching something earlier than if you had waited for the UK broadcast.

The broadcasters might disagree with this for any number of reasons. They might, for instance, feel you're missing out on the advertisements that are keeping your subscription cost low enough for you to afford.

Quote:

"Done illegal drugs" also seems a bit too general to me.

Yeah, I don't know anything about drugs, really, I just thought I'd throw it in there, as it's another one of those gray areas for a lot of people.