Unstoppable migration?

[techguyone]

Hopefully we won't be a member of said union much longer, you of course are quite welcome to move to it, should that be the case though.

Originally Posted by techguyone

Hopefully we won't be a member of said union much longer, you of course are quite welcome to move to it, should that be the case though.

I don't like the EU any more than you do ,I'm simply stating some facts that you and some others may be ignoring or unaware of ,incidentally we would probably still have this problem if we where to leave the EU ,this is not an issue with us being forced to take on migrant workers under EU rules ,this is an issue of refugees fleeing war torn countries and terrible human rights violations.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by techguyone

Correct, people like mrmistoffelees should go get an atlas, last time I looked the UK wasn't anywhere near Africa/middle East, unless the geography has changed a bit when I was asleep...

You claim asylum in the first safe place you come across, you don't cherry pick. There that wasn't hard to understand was it.

Only a complete gormless idiot wouldn't make the correlation that they're coming here to max out everything possible.

And only a complete gormless idiot would fail to realise that Sweden for example takes in three times the amount of refugees 30000 vs 10000 that we do in fact if you're from Syria then your application is automatically successful

Said gormless idiot would also fail to realise that asylum seekers receive far more in financial (and other) assistance in France,Germany and Sweden to name three countries than they would in the UK


Ergo it has absolutely nothing to do with geography or available benefits you tit


Asylum seekers are only granted accomodation & allowances IF they are considered to have a genuine claim those that don't are kept in detention centres or government contracted secure locations

---------- Post added at 17:38 ---------- Previous post was at 17:37 ----------

I wonder when people are going to realise this isn't a UK problem it's a European nay almost global problem

Two things I have learnt on this thread
1 quite a few people have no interest in the world unless it benefits them in some way otherwise they don't give a toss about anyone or anything
2) never argue with idiots, they'll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience

[Osem]

Originally Posted by martyh

I don't like the EU any more than you do ,I'm simply stating some facts that you and some others may be ignoring or unaware of ,incidentally we would probably still have this problem if we where to leave the EU ,this is not an issue with us being forced to take on migrant workers under EU rules ,this is an issue of refugees fleeing war torn countries and terrible human rights violations.

Correct but the point remains that there are countless millions around the globe who want and deserve a better life and a) we can't give refuge to them all so have to set a cut off point sooner or later and b) sending out the message that, if you storm our borders often enough we'll let you in no matter who you are and how weak your case for asylum turns out to be, is an invitation for yet more to do it and up the ante as they see fit. Admitting large numbers of economic migrants who're wrongly claiming asylum is storing up huge problems for the future because many already disappear and are never returned back to their homelands. If, as we should, we're going to give asylum to people we need to make sure it goes to those who really deserve it and are fleeing genuine persecution etc. not effectively give refuge to people who just want a better life, come here under false pretences and are never removed.

[mrmistoffelees]

Some people should take the time to read this (again)

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/7909630?utm_hp_ref=uk

Originally Posted by Osem

Correct but the point remains that there are countless millions around the globe who want and deserve a better life and a) we can't give refuge to them all so have to set a cut off point sooner or later and b) sending out the message that, if you storm our borders often enough we'll let you in no matter who you are and how weak your case for asylum turns out to be, is an invitation for yet more to do it and up the ante as they see fit. Admitting large numbers of economic migrants who're wrongly claiming asylum is storing up huge problems for the future because many already disappear and are never returned back to their homelands. If, as we should, we're going to give asylum to people we need to make sure it goes to those who really deserve it and are fleeing genuine persecution etc. not effectively give refuge to people who just want a better life, come here under false pretences and are never removed.

I absolutely agree ,but when Western governments where busy removing undesirable governments or refusing to get involved in massive human rights violations don't you think they should have made provision for the refugees that where always going to invade Western shores as a direct result of our activity or inactivity in their countries .The refugee problem is not a problem for the UK and France only, it is one for the whole of Europe and should be shared by all of Europe .

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

And only a complete gormless idiot would fail to realise that Sweden for example takes in three times the amount of refugees 30000 vs 10000 that we do in fact if you're from Syria then your application is automatically successful

Yep. The problem with Swedens approach is detailed here:
http://swedenreport.org/2015/04/03/s...into-oblivion/
It makes scary reading......
This is even more scary:
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape

[Taf]

My Swedish friends are dead against the influx of "foreigners" but their goverment is all for it.

That paralells some other counries too.

[Osem]

Therein lies the problem we will all face. As unpalatable as it is, there are far too many people to help and places like Sweden are finding that out the hard way and I will not only end badly but will result in a great deal of lasting resentment and hostility. Anyone who thinks the Swedes can/will keep it up is more than gormless. Anyway I'm sure those demanding we take in ever more refugees/bogus asylum seekers/economic migrants are doing more than their fair share to assist with their plight as opposed to just making themselves feel less guilty about how little they actually do...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-10433987.html

Politicians in Calais have called for the migrant crisis to be dumped on the UK side of the Channel.

The mayor of Calais, Natacha Bouchart, and a senior former centre-right minister, Xavier Bertrand, demanded the French government renegotiate the 12-year treaty which, in effect, moved the UK border to the Pas de Calais.

Such a decision would shift the crisis in Calais to Kent by allowing asylum seekers to leave French soil. “Let the migrants go and invite (David Cameron) to conduct whatever policies he wants on his own island,” said Mr Bertrand, former health minister and centre-right candidate for northern France president.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Damien

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-10433987.html

Sensationalist pap....

From the same article.

The Socialist–led French government insists that it has no plans to scrap the treaty. Its existence explains why the British government has been very slow to criticise Paris.

Whatever the failings of border security in Calais, the migrant problem would be far more acute if France lifted the barriers and let Britain police its own asylum-seekers.

Imagine if it was reversed, French officials say. French-speaking migrants from west Africa are coming ashore in Cornwall and making for Kent to reach France. “Would the British tabloids be shrieking for British police to stop them at Dover?” one official asked.

Salient point, non?

[Taf]

Some 10,000 currently continue to receive a taxpayer-funded allowance of £36 a week, despite their (asylum) applications having been rejected, because they are living in the UK with their families.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33754595

That's not small change for a cash-strapped country. £18,720,000 pa.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Taf

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33754595

That's not small change for a cash-strapped country. £18,720,000 pa.

... and those costs are a very small part of what the 'system' costs us to operate in total when you take into account al the abuse, appeals, enforcement, administration, healthcare, welfare, housing, education etc. etc. Still, if we pretend they're all totally honest decent people who'll be a real asset to the UK that'll make us all feel a lot better eh - especially those whose lives don't bring them into contact with any of the problems being created in our society by economic migrants coming here from around the globe but who like to preach tolerance and generosity on behalf of the rest of us.

Still waiting for someone who thinks they should be allowed in to tell us what we should do with the next trench who make it to Calais and all those who follow them? It's such a simple question that I can't understand why nobody wants to give an answer...

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Osem

... and those costs are a very small part of what the 'system' costs us to operate in total when you take into account al the abuse, appeals, enforcement, administration, healthcare, welfare, housing, education etc. etc. Still, if we pretend they're all totally honest decent people who'll be a real asset to the UK that'll make us all feel a lot better eh - especially those whose lives don't bring them into contact with any of the problems being created in our society by economic migrants coming here from around the globe but who like to preach tolerance and generosity on behalf of the rest of us.

Still waiting for someone who thinks they should be allowed in to tell us what we should do with the next trench who make it to Calais and all those who follow them? It's such a simple question that I can't understand why nobody wants to give an answer...

As i said in a previous post, it's only the people who have what the government think to be a valid claim that are granted the benefits whilst their claims are considered etc. Those who it's decided have no claim are held in secure accomodation prior deportation

I don't profess to have all the answers, but as a fellow human being, it's not (in my opinion) to allow a fellow human being to live in squalor or filth.

---------- Post added at 13:55 ---------- Previous post was at 13:53 ----------

Originally Posted by Taf

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33754595

That's not small change for a cash-strapped country. £18,720,000 pa.

£18,720,000pa is nothing to this government. Look at the huge amounts of money that has so far been wasted on Universal Credit (Specifically the IT budgets)
It could probably also be collected in owed taxes in the blink of an eye.

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

£18,720,000pa is nothing to this government. Look at the huge amounts of money that has so far been wasted on Universal Credit (Specifically the IT budgets)
It could probably also be collected in owed taxes in the blink of an eye.

Government policy can't (and shouldn't) be formulated at the level of individual cases. It can only deal with the entirety of a problem, else the complexity would quickly push that bill well over £18k. And the entirety of the problem is a lot more than one single case with one single bill.