Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities

[Angua]

Well as of April 2012 no family earning £26k or more will get Tax Credits or Child Tax Credits. The letters are being received at the moment. Now whether this will include those whose total benefits (excluding child benefit) are over £26k or not will cause a whole other argument.

For me it equals about 6% of my income, as a family not so much.

Originally Posted by Angua

Well as of April 2012 no family earning £26k or more will get Tax Credits or Child Tax Credits. The letters are being received at the moment. Now whether this will include those whose total benefits (excluding child benefit) are over £26k or not will cause a whole other argument.

For me it equals about 6% of my income, as a family not so much.

am i right in that these changes will not take effect untill next year because tax credits are paid based on last years earnings or is it a case of any family having a combined income of £26k last tax year will not recieve any payments this year .I assume the £545 allowance for children with families who earn under £50k is still there

[Angua]

Originally Posted by martyh

am i right in that these changes will not take effect untill next year because tax credits are paid based on last years earnings or is it a case of any family having a combined income of £26k last tax year will not recieve any payments this year .I assume the £545 allowance for children with families who earn under £50k is still there

Nope they end as of April 2012. I have the letter from the tax man.

[Its-Me]

Year's ago I was diagnosed with a mental illness, caused by drug's. But I'm considerably lucky now that I earn the amount I do.

Marty the trouble is with what the government is doing to longterm disabled only cuts fraud in headlines not by a sizeable amount in reality. For quite a while now you couldn't be officially longterm disabled without providing supporting medical evidence i know because i have supplied it in some cases and agreed on them contacting whoever they needed although asking i think was more politeness as i am sure they can request it whether i agree or not.

Most benefit fraud now is on shortterm usually in six month increments i know because more then one person has detailed how they do it on some of the medical forums i go on (keep upto date on new treatments, developments for my condition). None of the reforms that are doing real damage to longterm sick are catching that group or impacting them in the slightest thats where my anger comes from they are lying to the public knowing damn well it isn't about fraud it's cost cutting at whatever cost.

I do and always have said there needs to be reform of the welfare system my past posts on this forum will show that. They have to be meaningful practical reforms that address all needs for the short, medium and longterm. What is being done right now by this government with a lot of mistruth in your name is none of that.

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by martyh

like i said you need to source a history of tax credits all the way back to when every working person used to get married mans allowance/single mans allowance ,and a child allowance built into their tax code .That was all abolished and family credits introduced which where in turn replaced by WFTC which was a temporary measure untill WTC and CTC where introduced .So you see you can't simply abolish WTC and CTC because you would have to replace them with another tax allowance for working people .There is nothing wrong with the current system just the way it is implemented



You really need to go back and read what i posted on several occasions before throwing such accusations around ,I'll leave you to do that before you apologise

Ok so there is no misunderstanding.

You see nothing wrong with the current level of tax credits paid out for children but you think disabled related benefits need cutting?

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

I don't subscribe to the sheep idea but what i do think is that right now people's personal finances are hurting and like everyone when they are hurting they want to lash out at someone and right now with the campaign that seems to be going on we sick and disabled are a perfect scapegoat for all that ill's ya. Difference between now and the past when disabled people were not attacked is a more hostile media and a oppurtunistic government that finds itself being handed a scapegoat on a plate and doesn't have the political fortitude to resist using it.

I would like to think people could be educated on the issue but sadly i don't think that is easily done or something that could be achieved in general terms with the general public they see us on our odd good day and judge us completely on it. We really are getting to the point where you are totally damned if you do and damned if you don't. I dearly wish writing "fit for work" on a form made it so because i would be so much happier being fit, able to work and having a job but not how life works.

Problem is more people have my attitude and would dearly love to work but cannot then are defrauding the system but as long as the media keeps highlighting the fringe cases and reporting them as the norm it simply isn't going to get any better for any claimant.

Until the Government comes up with a lot of decent well paid jobs, they will fail!

---------- Post added at 10:39 ---------- Previous post was at 10:38 ----------

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

Tax credits without a doubt are a much bigger drain however they are given out to far more people so although they may get targeted as well they wont get the same media propoganda against them.

Classic examples.

We had martyh post HB fraud figures as a way to justify attacking the disabled when they seperate parts of welfare.
We have newspapers loving to find people with 4+ kids who will be on high amounts of child benefits and then the government sees that as an excuse to attack the disabled.
We have the bbc who seemed to just think everyone is fiddling sickness benefits and going out looking for them.

Its going to get worse before it gets better, it will bottom out when people are dieing in the streets and en masse and the government starts getting sued successfully at which point they will have realised its gone too far.

What about the Tax Evaders? they have stolen HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS!!!

---------- Post added at 10:41 ---------- Previous post was at 10:39 ----------

The victims of this better vote for the Far-Left after this!

And if they don't?

[Its-Me]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

Until the Government comes up with a lot of decent well paid jobs, they will fail!

---------- Post added at 10:39 ---------- Previous post was at 10:38 ----------



What about the Tax Evaders? they have stolen HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS!!!

---------- Post added at 10:41 ---------- Previous post was at 10:39 ----------

The victims of this better vote for the Far-Left after this!

So people should vote for the communist party of Great Britain?

[mertle]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Marty the trouble is with what the government is doing to longterm disabled only cuts fraud in headlines not by a sizeable amount in reality. For quite a while now you couldn't be officially longterm disabled without providing supporting medical evidence i know because i have supplied it in some cases and agreed on them contacting whoever they needed although asking i think was more politeness as i am sure they can request it whether i agree or not.

Most benefit fraud now is on shortterm usually in six month increments i know because more then one person has detailed how they do it on some of the medical forums i go on (keep upto date on new treatments, developments for my condition). None of the reforms that are doing real damage to longterm sick are catching that group or impacting them in the slightest thats where my anger comes from they are lying to the public knowing damn well it isn't about fraud it's cost cutting at whatever cost.

I do and always have said there needs to be reform of the welfare system my past posts on this forum will show that. They have to be meaningful practical reforms that address all needs for the short, medium and longterm. What is being done right now by this government with a lot of mistruth in your name is none of that.

you make very good points all departments should talk to each other. I also think one form should be enough. Blackpool DLA should be completely link with local benefits office council should be linked to stop the housing fraud.

Surely if the government system interlinked we would see less fraud.

Its left to individuals to inform departments think it should be automatic. To claim dsibility you fill two forms one for DLA one for benefits surely on survices most questions are exactly the same. Streamline the system is needed not major heart surgery which we seeing.

I dont disagree with the support - work disabled thinking of ESA. idea thats not bad those who able to work should be able to get help. Those who cant work should get the required help they need. Its hard for disabled to find jobs they need a help to fight there corner. I would also like to see disabled companies setup who soley employ disabled free of regulation and possible financially support. Those who work group should not lose entitlements just because disabilty wont restrict as such. It also should be flexible say someone in support feels capable should be able to use a contact to sort it out and vice versa. I also think work from home system for disabled could be introduced. The cynic in me ESA been introduced to circumvent the lifetime contracts of genuine disabled. Fear goalpost move so bad to literally make it impossible for disabled to get the support needed.

However dont like the way government dealing with ESA system. I dont think there atitude of nobody on benefits for life is right. It gives out signals of certain disabled not got illnesses they wont recover. There is people who will be ill for there lifetime so therefore should get lifetime support. Some born with it some who fell ill later or accident caused it. I would say 100% that disabled would swap there lifestyle for others. Medical breakthroughs have come on but not all illnesses will be wiped out just yet. way you hear people miracle cures are there some medications are available but governments often wont support them due to costs to NHS. So some look at charities to try get medication which either cures or eases it.

media and those who like to think disabled are scroungers. The hate then becomes from that. Sadly reality is many who have been thrown off still disabled but goalpost moved. I certainly dont like the all glocves fit all approach to tackling it.

Disabled should get the help they need problem lies every thing not black and white but people want it so.

[Taf]

Originally Posted by mertle

I would also like to see disabled companies setup who soley employ disabled free of regulation and possible financially support.

REMPLOY in Wales does that, and has done since WW2 I think, but disabled groups want them shut down due to discrimination!

http://www.remploy.co.uk/about-us.ashx

[mertle]

Originally Posted by Taf

REMPLOY in Wales does that, and has done since WW2 I think, but disabled groups want them shut down due to discrimination!

http://www.remploy.co.uk/about-us.ashx

yep read an old article it was to support more into disabled work but not sure if they would support that point today. As not sure it will create more help at all she said at the time instead 70,000 in work more 100,000 could be helped was never sure that it would work or the numbers.

Radar was the charity not sure if Liz Sayce agree with her original comments.

Personally I felt she was wrong at the time Remploy does fantastic job employing disabled which would normally not get work or find it hard to get companies employing them.

I bet Radar never thought in 12 months what was going to happen to disabled. I think remploy needs to stay and even expanded.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...es-could-close

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

Ok so there is no misunderstanding.

You see nothing wrong with the current level of tax credits paid out for children but you think disabled related benefits need cutting?

nope totally wrong read what was posted not what you think i posted

[Its-Me]

Benefit's helped me when I was unemployed and then retraining to do my present job.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Taf

REMPLOY in Wales does that, and has done since WW2 I think, but disabled groups want them shut down due to discrimination!

http://www.remploy.co.uk/about-us.ashx

And in Leicestershire there is Advance Employment