Post-Brexit Thread

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by nashville

Seems like everything is a worse shambles before the referrendum, No one knows what is happening, I think we are worse off now in Scotland, N S is going to fight to stay in and we have gave her another excuse to break up Britain, What a disaster we are in now,

That was always going to happen. The losers need a scapegoat and seem to have two. However, things are moving regarding the EU exit. DC has been telling them that we have to have some kind of deal without freedom of movement as part of it. He said they must let us kerb immigration now. BBC News today. The Government are putting together a team of top Civil Servants together to handle negotiations. It can't be done overnight.

[ntluser]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Chants (sung to 'Rule Brittania') have been heard in London with the words "Rule Brittania, Brittania Rules the waves, first we'll kick out the Poles and then the Gays".

I doubt that the UK will be expelling any EU nationals who are working here.

The Leave campaigners wanted to introduce some controls over the currently unlimited immigration.

Part of the problem lies with the UK government's failure to address the overwhelming of communities by high immigrant populations and their associated impact on education, health and employment services.

Such areas need additional resources which can be rapidly deployed so that local British Nationals are not disadvantaged.

The government also needs to take direct action with respect to the 5% of the population who are unemployed. Getting these people into work will reduce the need for immigrants to come as there will be fewer jobs.

Having said that we will still need a number of immigrants as they have skills not found in our unemployed, who may need retraining.

Hostile action against immigrants and gays is not only unacceptable it does them a disservice as they all have a positive part to play in improving our society, given that many immigrants come here to set up businesses and to employ local workers.

A number of our existing businesses would struggle and things would be worse if foreign nationals were expelled, so such a move is counterproductive.

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by jamiefrost

Apart from the fact we have had full control over 50% of immigration that was outside the EU and it looks like we are heading for membership of the EEA which require free movement.

So what will have changed?

J

Exactly, so we have to have a deal that does not involve EEA or free movement.

[ntluser]

Originally Posted by Big Brian

Exactly, so we have to have a deal that does not involve EEA or free movement.

I think it is unlikely that the EU or indeed Europe will allow access to the single market without acceptance of the freedom of movement principle.

We can only reduce numbers by:-

a) limiting access to benefits which we are already doing

b) getting our unemployed into jobs so there are no jobs available, however that won't stop people coming to set up their own businesses

c) applying the Australian style system to rest of the world immigration

d)removing foreign nationals who are guilty of crimes and other undesirables seeking to promote radicalisation and rebellion

e)having a better plan to deal with resource provision in areas where there are high immigrant populations so that local British nationals are not disadvantaged

Many voters voted to leave because they were unable to get their children into the school of their choice or were unable to get doctors' appointments due to demand or could not get a job.

These were issues in the hands of national and local government and their failure to deal with these problems effectively has made their lives intolerable and has led to resentment of immigrants.

The government will have to have a better plan, because better conditions for British nationals in immigrant areas will lead to greater acceptance especially as immigrants appear to be willing to do jobs that UK nationals are not willing or able to do.

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by ntluser

I think it is unlikely that the EU or indeed Europe will allow access to the single market without acceptance of the freedom of movement principle.

We can only reduce numbers by:-

a) limiting access to benefits which we are already doing

b) getting our unemployed into jobs so there are no jobs available, however that won't stop people coming to set up their own businesses

c) applying the Australian style system to rest of the world immigration

d)removing foreign nationals who are guilty of crimes and other undesirables seeking to promote radicalisation and rebellion

e)having a better plan to deal with resource provision in areas where there are high immigrant populations so that local British nationals are not disadvantaged

Many voters voted to leave because they were unable to get their children into the school of their choice or were unable to get doctors' appointments due to demand or could not get a job.

These were issues in the hands of national and local government and their failure to deal with these problems effectively has made their lives intolerable and has led to resentment of immigrants.

The government will have to have a better plan, because better conditions for British nationals in immigrant areas will lead to greater acceptance especially as immigrants appear to be willing to do jobs that UK nationals are not willing or able to do.

Do we actually need to have access to the single market? What's to stop us just trading with the EU countries we trade with now like Germany, for example? I don't think we trade with all countries in the single market so why have access to it? I'm not sure how it would work but you could have private deals with the countries we do trade with in the EU surely?

[ntluser]

Originally Posted by Big Brian

Do we actually need to have access to the single market? What's to stop us just trading with the EU countries we trade with now like Germany, for example? I don't think we trade with all countries in the single market so why have access to it? I'm not sure how it would work but you could have private deals with the countries we do trade with in the EU surely?

Not sure if there is a way of doing that given that the EU countries and EEA countries require freedom of movement.

Angela Merkel said Germany will continue to trade with the UK but there was no mention of on what terms.

Even it would be possible it would take a long time to negotiate all the deals and we have to wonder what the consequences would be in the meantime.

A lot of people use Amazon which is based in Luxembourg. I wonder what the impact of Brexit will be. Will Amazon stop trading with the UK or will it be business as usual with possible variations in price?

A lot of our reservations are based on the uncertainty and we need some concrete facts and decisions to decide our own course of action. Until those facts and decisions emerge, the uncertainty will continue and we will just have to watch and wait.

Originally Posted by Big Brian

Do we actually need to have access to the single market? What's to stop us just trading with the EU countries we trade with now like Germany, for example? I don't think we trade with all countries in the single market so why have access to it? I'm not sure how it would work but you could have private deals with the countries we do trade with in the EU surely?

I don't see what the fascination with the single market is ,it just brings with it EU control of our workforce ,working regulations and adds to bureaucracy,something we are fighting against

Originally Posted by ntluser

Not sure if there is a way of doing that given that the EU countries and EEA countries require freedom of movement.

Angela Merkel said Germany will continue to trade with the UK but there was no mention of on what terms.

Even it would be possible it would take a long time to negotiate all the deals and we have to wonder what the consequences would be in the meantime.

A lot of people use Amazon which is based in Luxembourg. I wonder what the impact of Brexit will be. Will Amazon stop trading with the UK or will it be business as usual with possible variations in price?

A lot of our reservations are based on the uncertainty and we need some concrete facts and decisions to decide our own course of action. Until those facts and decisions emerge, the uncertainty will continue and we will just have to watch and wait.

How does America,Australia,China India etc ,etc manage ,they all trade with the EU countries but do not have freedom of movement .We do not need free trade ,it would be better of course but not at any expense

[jamiefrost]

Originally Posted by Big Brian

Do we actually need to have access to the single market? What's to stop us just trading with the EU countries we trade with now like Germany, for example? I don't think we trade with all countries in the single market so why have access to it? I'm not sure how it would work but you could have private deals with the countries we do trade with in the EU surely?

I think one of the biggest issues will be passporting of financial services within the EU, financial services are around 12% of GDP currently and without the ability to conduct these services the finance sector will take a massive hit.

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/pra/P...g/default.aspx

It as possible to get these rights as per Switzerland but it won't be cheap even if the EU counties are of a mind to let us.

J

[ntluser]

I think ideally people would like to go back to the original trading arrangement without the political overtones i.e. political union and the EU army and without dictation from the EU as to how we handle immigration numbers.

I'm just hoping that the situation with the Syrians has made them see what happens when masses of desperate immigrants arrive in your country in numbers that you are not prepared for.

There needs to be some arrangement which give countries more time to provide the necessary resources and get them in place before immigrants arrive.

Like all these things we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by martyh

I don't see what the fascination with the single market is ,it just brings with it EU control of our workforce ,working regulations and adds to bureaucracy,something we are fighting against




How does America,Australia,China India etc ,etc manage ,they all trade with the EU countries but do not have freedom of movement .We do not need free trade ,it would be better of course but not at any expense

^^ This.

Even if there are some tarriffs does it really matter if you have to pay a few extra pennies for stinky French cheese? Especially as there are perfectly good stinky English cheeses.

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by ntluser

Not sure if there is a way of doing that given that the EU countries and EEA countries require freedom of movement.

Angela Merkel said Germany will continue to trade with the UK but there was no mention of on what terms.

Even it would be possible it would take a long time to negotiate all the deals and we have to wonder what the consequences would be in the meantime.

A lot of people use Amazon which is based in Luxembourg. I wonder what the impact of Brexit will be. Will Amazon stop trading with the UK or will it be business as usual with possible variations in price?

A lot of our reservations are based on the uncertainty and we need some concrete facts and decisions to decide our own course of action. Until those facts and decisions emerge, the uncertainty will continue and we will just have to watch and wait.

As they are on line traders I doubt they would cease to trade with one of their biggest markets. I use Wish which is an on line trader in China but though it takes a bit of time to get goods, they are quite good. He he I trade with China so why not the country? No I think Amazon will be ok.

---------- Post added at 08:52 ---------- Previous post was at 08:51 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

I don't see what the fascination with the single market is ,it just brings with it EU control of our workforce ,working regulations and adds to bureaucracy,something we are fighting against




How does America,Australia,China India etc ,etc manage ,they all trade with the EU countries but do not have freedom of movement .We do not need free trade ,it would be better of course but not at any expense

Nor me, I don't think we need it really.

---------- Post added at 08:56 ---------- Previous post was at 08:52 ----------

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

^^ This.

Even if there are some tarriffs does it really matter if you have to pay a few extra pennies for stinky French cheese? Especially as there are perfectly good stinky English cheeses.

Indeed. As I've said it wouldn't be in their interests to slap tariffs on us nor us on them. I think a deal can be reached with individual countries in the EU without freedom of movement and the single market. It just needs planning as I can't see Germany ceasing to trade with us no matter what the deal is.

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

^^ This.

Even if there are some tarriffs does it really matter if you have to pay a few extra pennies for stinky French cheese? Especially as there are perfectly good stinky English cheeses.

The problem with tariffs is when you hit some sort of scale. Let's say a car manufacturer gets hit with a 1% tariff when moving components around Europe during their production, a common way of working, that would be unsustainable for a major business. Anyone here would move their pensions to get an additional 1% and companies will move production to mainland Europe if it reduces their operation costs.

Paying 1% more for French cheese isn't the problem.

[Gavin78]

Problem was staying in the EU it was going one way total control. It is OK saying well the UK had a special status we all know well some know that it wouldn't have stayed special. It was just to appease the UK government to make us feel special and the EU as we know was manipulating that status at free will.

Just look at the amount of money handed over to Greece? How much of that was or could have been in Osborne's budget for our economy? How much or how many times have we lost out under that status some of it I guess we'll never know.

With the way the EU was going this referendum was going to happen sooner or later anyway. There might be talk of some businesses move out of the UK Vodafone as an example but well this is just a clear out or reshuffle and probably had every intention of moving anyway. Whatever company falls or goes there will be 10 others waiting to pick the pieces up.

Like Farage said we are open for business if you want to cut off millions of people you trade with and have mass job losses your end then so be it, it won't be the UK that causes your down fall but your own selfless acts.

Originally Posted by martyh

I don't see what the fascination with the single market is ,it just brings with it EU control of our workforce ,working regulations and adds to bureaucracy,something we are fighting against

The single market lets you treat the entire area it encompasses as one big economic area rather than an external one with which you trade. The difference between someone in London trading with Liverpool as opposed to New York. Liverpool is internal and transactions are simple but New York, even with a trade agreement, can require more paperwork, different regulations and maybe costs depending on the terms of any trade deal.

A company based in London at the moment has pan-European access with the only barrier being language. They can sell just as easily to Berlin as they can to Manchester. Buy/Sell/Recruit/open an office, it's all as if it were the same nation. Many major companies have the same company working across Europe. They may have a HR department in Poland, a legal department in London and a marking department in Berlin all under one legal incorporation and one form of regulation. Their registration anywhere within the 27 (actually the EEA too IIRC) opens up all of Europe to them.

It's very different to a trade deal and many on here still see business as the physical buying or selling of finished goods when in reality a lot of it is economic activity happening across boards which are hard to quantity in import/export figures. This is especially true of services which is our biggest industry, i.e how do you put a hard figure on a legal firm in London consulting for a company in Italy in such figures?

This is why Vodafone , Visa and banks are looking to move jobs out of Britain if we exit the single market.

Maybe it's worth leaving the single market to free ourselves of EU laws and to control immigration but we shouldn't dismiss the fact we will be losing something tangible and beneficial to the economy by leaving the single market. There has been a frequent misunderstanding of what the single market is during this referendum and many people who seem to think it's only about tariff-free trade for physical goods.

[jamiefrost]

Originally Posted by Big Brian

Exactly, so we have to have a deal that does not involve EEA or free movement.

As long everyone is happy of the impact of this, our imports will become more expensive to the EU for example, what effect will this have I don't know but it's not going to make it better.

The exclusion of our financial services from the passporting regulations of the EEA / single market has the potential to have a massive impact

J