[Update] The News Corp scandal

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by Chris

Coulson is a red herring. He worked for the News of the Screws a long time ago and left Cameron's employ long before the current scandal blew up. We have all made bad decisions from time to time. Not everything is a critical issue, no matter how often the leader of the Opposition might claim it is.

The far more worrying issue is Cameron's long term, and continuing friendship with that nasty piece of work Rebekah Brooks, and by extension the Murdochs themselves. Still worse is the prospect that the Commissioner of the Met had concerns about sharing operational information with the Prime Minister because of the PM's social connections.

It is a bit disingenuous to assume that just because Coulson "resigned" from Number Ten, it disengages him from Cameron and this whole sorry mess. I know that is what the plan is, for everyone to resign with the hope that no one will notice, but I don't think that even the Great British Public are that naive.

Originally Posted by Flyboy

It is a bit disingenuous to assume that just because Coulson "resigned" from Number Ten, it disengages him from Cameron and this whole sorry mess. I know that is what the plan is, for everyone to resign with the hope that no one will notice, but I don't think that even the Great British Public are that naive.

As you said, something new would have to come to light for this to seriously damage Cameron. This scandal does damage him a bit as all negative press accumulates to create a negative picture eventually, but I don't think it's much more than. It's akin to all the mini-scandals that enveloped Blair in the early years. Takes the shine off but never caused a serious problem for him.

---------- Post added at 13:41 ---------- Previous post was at 13:37 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

Coulson is a red herring. He worked for the News of the Screws a long time ago and left Cameron's employ long before the current scandal blew up. We have all made bad decisions from time to time. Not everything is a critical issue, no matter how often the leader of the Opposition might claim it is.

The far more worrying issue is Cameron's long term, and continuing friendship with that nasty piece of work Rebekah Brooks, and by extension the Murdochs themselves. Still worse is the prospect that the Commissioner of the Met had concerns about sharing operational information with the Prime Minister because of the PM's social connections.

I missed this....

Like I said previously the biggest scandal here is not the relatively begin, albeit disgusting, phone hacking allegations but the suggestion that the police were routinely bribed for information, that the leaders of Met enjoyed a close relationship with the senior executives at News International even while they were under investigation, and that these led to the police to decide against a proper investigation twice because they feared it would harm their relationship with News International. That News Corp felt they could operate above the law, and actually did for a while, is the biggest scandal of it all and hopefully that will be outed and those involved punished with safeguards to ensure it can never happen again.

If it turns out the PM was also involved then that's even worse.

Originally Posted by Flyboy

It is a bit disingenuous to assume that just because Coulson "resigned" from Number Ten, it disengages him from Cameron and this whole sorry mess. I know that is what the plan is, for everyone to resign with the hope that no one will notice, but I don't think that even the Great British Public are that naive.

You appear to be assigning things to me that I have not said ... Par for the course.

I'm not looking for disengagement, I'm appealing for context and proportionality. Not something that comes easily to party hacks, but a useful skill all the same.

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by Damien

As you said, something new would have to come to light for this to seriously damage Cameron. This scandal does damage him a bit as all negative press accumulates to create a negative picture eventually, but I don't think it's much more than.

But that's suggesting that there is no more to learn, I suspect there is much more we haven't heard yet. I think Coulson has a lot more to say, as does Brooks. She did say that, over the next year, more things will become apparent and Coulson said, "there's a lot I'd like to say, but I can't....;" was that "just yet," or "ever?"

It's akin to all the mini-scandals that enveloped Blair in the early years. Takes the shine off but never caused a serious problem for him.

But has the public had their fill of these things? Cash for questions, staying in hotels, trips in private jets, cash for honours, cozy chats with news proprietors, expenses, paying off prostitutes, undisclosed gifts, funding from questionable sources etc., it all adds up and there is a breaking point.

Originally Posted by Flyboy

But that's suggesting that there is no more to learn, I suspect there is much more we haven't heard yet. I think Coulson has a lot more to say, as does Brooks. She did say that, over the next year, more things will become apparent and Coulson said, "there's a lot I'd like to say, but I can't....;" was that "just yet," or "ever?"

I suspect that's more to do with internal News International matters than the Cameron. As you say your depending on stuff 'we haven't heard of yet'. Let's at least wait until we have heard them before seriously speculating on the damage done.

But has the public had their fill of these things? Cash for questions, staying in hotels, trips in private jets, cash for honours, cozy chats with news proprietors, expenses, paying off prostitutes, undisclosed gifts, funding from questionable sources etc., it all adds up and there is a breaking point.

If that were the case we would have reached breaking points years ago. Governments have their own breaking point eventually where the scandal becomes too much but the Conservatives are no where near that level yet. New Labour pretty much never reached that point - they were voted out because the economy and fatigue with the same administration for a decade more than scandal.

[Flyboy]

But life would be very boring if we couldn't speculate, at least a little bit.

[Osem]

Looks like John Yates is going to resign according to LBC news. It'll be interesting to hear what he has to say about all this.

The spotlight's certainly on the Met. for now but I don't suppose I'm the only one who detects more that a hint of hypocrisy and double standards on the part of some of our leading politicians whose morals and judgement has been found equally wanting but who didn't feel the need to resign or even apologise sincerely for what they got up to.

Keith Vaz questioned the veracity of Andy Hayman's evidence to the select committee the other day. I invite anyone who's interested to do a quick search on Mr Vaz and his past before taking his judgement on anything too seriously.

[denphone]

John Yates has resigned as assistant police commissioner.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/blog...-live-coverage

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ng-crisis.html

Maybe Jesus will also resign, he seems to be one of the very few who haven't yet.

As important as it is for the relationship between politicians and the press to be as clean as it can and i have my doubts it will ever be really clean given the two party's one being power hungry and prepared to do what it takes to get power and the other being hungry for dirt to dish. For me the most important thing right now is to clear up the police once and for all because the relationship between the met and the press is very disturbing as we cannot kick the met out at an election.

I have no doubt there is much more to come on this and by the time it is all done and dusted ed "hero" milliband won't be shouting so loud as there are as many skeletons in labours closet in all this as the tories. Cameron made a mistake in hiring coulson not argument there but remember no one gets that level of job without checks being made and those must have come up clean because cameron is not that big an idiot to have taken him on knowing he failed those checks.

We have to be careful here though because we may well lose a lot in return for this cleanup, we have to keep a free press and one that is not hindered overly by legislation. We cannot also have a situation where police and politicians are petrified of being seen working with the press in case of whatever. Proper checks and balances need to be put in to protect all sides in this without any side losing more then they have too to prevent this state of affairs happening again.

A good start is to make sure media ownage is never slanted to the degree it has been and to make sure there is even balance in the media with no one group able to ever exert on anyone influence that is detrimental.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Jameseh

Maybe Jesus will also resign, he seems to be one of the very few who haven't yet.

i bet camerons bum is twitching

[denphone]

Interesting pieces in the Guardian about what Nick clegg should do in regards to David Cameron and his government and what Michael White thinks.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...-david-cameron

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/b...agement-skills


And one here from the Daily Fail.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ng-crisis.html

[papa smurf]

Labour MP Dennis Skinner branded Prime Minister Cameron "dodgy Dave" today as the escalating Establishment scandal cast a huge cloud over 10 Downing Street.
Mr Skinner declared: "It is getting closer and closer to the Prime Minister and the centre of government.
"We have Rupert Murdoch's key lieutenants resigning with Rebekah Brooks arrested and Coulson arrested.
"There's only dodgy Dave still at large."
...............................................
just saw the above exchange of views in parliament on sky news

the pm's reputation is going down the pan

[Derek]

Originally Posted by LondonRoad

Derek?

Yes please. Easiest job ever.

A simple reminder to all higher ranks that the same rules apply to all should do it.

If I accepted a gift from someone I was investigating I would be out a job. Just because they haven't been on the streets for many years doesn't exempt them from the rules.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Derek

Yes please. Easiest job ever.

A simple reminder to all higher ranks that the same rules apply to all should do it.

If I accepted a gift from someone I was investigation I would be out a job. Just because they haven't been on the streets for many years doesn't exempt them from the rules.

And Sir Hugh as your loyal assistant.



Thats right as no one whoever they are should be exempt from the rules as you cannot have one rule for them and one one role for us normal beings.