Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

True, and making them pay for those degrees now is self-defeating.

They do need training as Staff Nurses are now doing jobs that Drs used to do. However getting rid of bursaries and making them take out loans, along with pay which is poor compared to other graduates is ludicrous. No wonder courses are empty. In the meantime we need immigration because we haven't trained, incentivised and given enough respect to a taken for granted profession.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by passingbat

Wake me up when the FT has a pro Brexit story.... or the Express has a pro Remain story.

All these publications have an agenda, and choose stories to propagate that agenda.

None of this means that the story in the FT is incorrect. It is accurate, It may have an agenda but it remains an authoritative source.
Alas, the same can't be said of The Daily Express, a paper I used to love once for its Rupert the Bear cartoon. That seems to be more accurate than its Brexit scare stories these days!
http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/daily-...ace-of-a-week/
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...b0f838c62e298b
http://awards.pressgazette.co.uk/201...es-under-ipso/

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by martyh

And German health care providers unwillingness to recruit from abroad

The shortage of German nurses is still there.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Mr K

They do need training as Staff Nurses are now doing jobs that Drs used to do. However getting rid of bursaries and making them take out loans, along with pay which is poor compared to other graduates is ludicrous. No wonder courses are empty. In the meantime we need immigration because we haven't trained, incentivised and given enough respect to a taken for granted profession.

For once I agree with you in that getting rid of bursaries was ludicrous.

TBH I don't know the structure of the nursing profession now but when I was in the NHS I was a Cadet Nuse ( non-existant now) at 16. The next step was Student Nurse which was "In House" training with the option to go SEN (2yr course) or RCN (3yr course).

Only an RCN could be a Staff Nurse and courses and employment were run along the same lines as apprentiships at the time meaning students spent a lot of time on the ward learming "hands on" from the Staff Nurses on the wards.

Times have changed though, you can shout "we need to train more nurses" sounds good but it's more than a job or a profession. It's a vocation.

Had I realised that at the time I may have become a full fledged nurse.

I will just add I was not in a General Hospital.

I think for certain professions the government should, whilst you're employed by the public sector, pay the student loan repayments. So teachers, doctors, nurses, police officers, army etc whilst you're working for a state school or the NHS the money that comes out of your salary for student loans is paid by the govt instead.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Damien

I think for certain professions the government should, whilst you're employed by the public sector, pay the student loan repayments. So teachers, doctors, nurses, police officers, army etc whilst you're working for a state school or the NHS the money that comes out of your salary for student loans is paid by the govt instead.

Umm surely that should be pro rata against salary.

I have no issue with nurses etc. having their student loans repaid but a GP/Consultant on over 100k per year ? They can afford it.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Umm surely that should be pro rata against salary.

I have no issue with nurses etc. having their student loans repaid but a GP/Consultant on over 100k per year ? They can afford it.

It could be done whereby after XXyrs of service the debt is cleared. If you leave the NHS before then a pro rata amount will have to be repaid.

[jonbxx]

Well, as I predicted, the European Medicines Agency is likely to leave London - http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-bri...-idUKKBN1771XM

That's 900 highly skilled specialised jobs that will either be lost or leaving the UK

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

Well, as I predicted, the European Medicines Agency is likely to leave London - http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-bri...-idUKKBN1771XM

That's 900 highly skilled specialised jobs that will either be lost or leaving the UK

so does that mean we have to set up our own agency

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

Well, as I predicted, the European Medicines Agency is likely to leave London - http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-bri...-idUKKBN1771XM

That's 900 highly skilled specialised jobs that will either be lost or leaving the UK

It was an EU body, so that was pretty much inevitable.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

so does that mean we have to set up our own agency

We already have one. The article explains that the UK's Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency takes the lead in assessing around a fifth of all EMA drug applications. The EU 27 contribute 80% of the workload so the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency is currently a great benefactor from the set-up.

We might continue to subscribe to some of these bodies anyway. I read the other day there are literally hundreds of various organisations of these kinds and the govt doesn't have the appetite to set up British versions for all of them. So a piecemeal approach would take it's place where we would set up new ones if there needs to be different regulation for some reason.

[Gavin78]

Originally Posted by Mr K

They do need training as Staff Nurses are now doing jobs that Drs used to do. However getting rid of bursaries and making them take out loans, along with pay which is poor compared to other graduates is ludicrous. No wonder courses are empty. In the meantime we need immigration because we haven't trained, incentivised and given enough respect to a taken for granted profession.

I'll tell you the problem as well, Students do placements as you may well know. but they often send them to specialist wards like mine which is Renal all they can do is stand and watch other than bringing the patient in a wheel chair, getting them on the bed and taking blood pressures.

They cant do much else other than watch and learn what we tell them but it's at least 6 -12 months before perm staff become competent enough in the job so when the students leave the ward which could be anything from a 1 day to 3 week placement they often give us bad feed back because they can't do anything.

Also drug calculations have changed and nurses are doing a lot more. our unit is nurse-led we don't have any doctors but care for 70 patients a day over a 7 day period which is why they have started introducing degree level because as you say they do a lot more now some jobs are what DR's used to do that are now nurses jobs

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Damien

We might continue to subscribe to some of these bodies anyway. I read the other day there are literally hundreds of various organisations of these kinds and the govt doesn't have the appetite to set up British versions for all of them. So a piecemeal approach would take it's place where we would set up new ones if there needs to be different regulation for some reason.

Yes. Some won't like the fact that thisimplies ECJ oversight.

[1andrew1]

Ryanair ups the Brexit ante and says it 'will have to suspend UK flights' without early Brexit aviation deal. A real threat or just a publicity ploy?
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/...ocid=ACERDHP15