Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Peter_

As long as we win our case I honestly do not care nor do the hundreds who lost their jobs due to outsourcing to people with little or no knowledge of our jobs and without the skills required.

Nor does have anything to do with us getting new jobs as that just proves that we have the right skills for the marketplace which being made redundant cannot remove.

This case will highlight lies and mistruths perpetuated by Virgin Media during the closure of the call centre.

So, you openly admit that you don't care about current Virgin Media staff. At least you can be credited with being honest.

It's a shame that Virgin Media don't command at least a little respect from you for feeding you and keeping a roof over your head for years. If they had known this in advance, perhaps they wouldn't have taken you on in the first pace.

You cannot, however, speak unilaterally for your former colleagues. I would imagine that they have a less selfish and more respectful outlook on life than yourself.

Another reason that I believe that this is short sighted behaviour is the reaction of your current employer to seeing you turn on your former employer at the drop of a hat for a potential quick easy buck.

Don't allow yourself to believe that it's done you any favours...

"More respectful"?????

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

It's a shame that Virgin Media don't command at least a little respect from you for feeding you and keeping a roof over your head for years.

My, such sanctimony.

Virgin Media has, of course, done no such thing. It has entered into a simple contract in which it has paid an agreed hourly or annual rate in exchange for Peter's labour. That contract is governed and restricted by various pieces of employment law. Most of what passes for "caring" on VM's part (or any other large employer, particularly publicly traded ones) is a consequence of legal obligation. A PLC's duty is to its shareholders, not its staff, and laws which force them to "care" for their staff are there precisely because in the absence of such laws, many, if not most, of them do not.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Hugh

"More respectful"?????

Reminds me of the bad old days where you had to take your cap off to speak to the boss or you were docked a days pay

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Chris

My, such sanctimony.

Virgin Media has, of course, done no such thing. It has entered into a simple contract in which it has paid an agreed hourly or annual rate in exchange for Peter's labour. That contract is governed and restricted by various pieces of employment law. Most of what passes for "caring" on VM's part (or any other large employer, particularly publicly traded ones) is a consequence of legal obligation. A PLC's duty is to its shareholders, not its staff, and laws which force them to "care" for their staff are there precisely because in the absence of such laws, many, if not most, of them do not.

Partly correct.

The sale of one's labour is a two way adult transaction. Thankfully, most of these transactions are done in good faith between employer and employee with mutual respect.

What an unfortunate cynical attitude you have regarding these transactions and the sense of care and duty that most parties have for each other.

As an example, VM are not legally obliged to offer discounted products and services to their employees, but they do, as a way of saying thank you. It's a pity that gestures such as this were not appreciated by some former members of staff.

As for accusations of sanctimony, you are well known for writing some of the most sanctimonious posts on the forum.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Partly correct.

The sale of one's labour is a two way adult transaction. Thankfully, most of these transactions are done in good faith between employer and employee with mutual respect.

What an unfortunate cynical attitude you have regarding these transactions and the sense of care and duty that most parties have for each other.

What an horrendously outdated attitude you have regarding these transactions. This is 2012 not 1952.

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

As an example, VM are not legally obliged to offer discounted products and services to their employees, but they do, as a way of saying thank you.

No, it's a way of saying "please come and work for us and don't disappear off to the competition".

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Russ

What an horrendously outdated attitude you have regarding these transactions. This is 2012 not 1952.



No, it's a way of saying "please come and work for us and don't disappear off to the competition".

I think you will find Russ that a far amount of staff don't get discounted services because they don't live in a on net area

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Sirius

Reminds me of the bad old days where you had to take your cap off to speak to the boss or you were docked a days pay

But the pendulum has now moved too far the other way. I have actually witnessed people being openly rude to their employer!!! No matter what a persons financial status, good manners and respect cost nothing- there is no excuse.

Negotiations between the Government and employers' representatives are currently taking place to redress this and, hopefully, create more employment to help the UK out of the current economic crisis.

One idea being mooted is for employees to give up their employment rights in return for employee share ownership tax benefits. This should have the desirable effect of people working for a company rather than against it. How's that for a novel idea!

Ordinary working people have their part to play in the drive towards recovery too. As Mr Cameron says "we are all in this together".

---------- Post added at 19:15 ---------- Previous post was at 19:08 ----------

Originally Posted by Russ

What an horrendously outdated attitude you have regarding these transactions. This is 2012 not 1952.

No, it's a way of saying "please come and work for us and don't disappear off to the competition".

So, let's hear your take on the sale of a persons labour then?

As for your last point, it is akin to the age old debate as to what is "bribery" and what is "an incentive".

The salient point is that VM do not only take care of their employees because of legislative requirements.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

So, let's hear your take on the sale of a persons labour then?

In a relevant thread I would go in to it.

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

My opinion is that VM do not only take care of their employees because of legislative requirements.

Fixed that for you.

Question ,

don't redundancy payments for insolvent and loss making companies come from the redundancy payments office or is that only for insolvent companies ?

As far as I'm concerned the last 20 odd posts have been completely off topic.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Russ

In a relevant thread I would go in to it.

Fixed that for you.

If you believe your point to be off topic, it's probably better not to make it in the first place.

The salient point that I made was that VM do not only take care of their employees because of legislative requirements. It is not for you to amend this.

Originally Posted by martyh

Question ,

don't redundancy payments for insolvent and loss making companies come from the redundancy payments office or is that only for insolvent companies ?

If a company has gone into liquidation and is unable to meet it's redundancy payment obligations, payment may be ultimately made from the National Insurance fund. This was not the case with payments made in respect of the Albert Dock closure.

Can we get back to the topic which is Albert Dock being closed.

If you wish to discuss legislation and union rules you should start a NEW thread not just open up an irelevent old thread.

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

So, you openly admit that you don't care about current Virgin Media staff. At least you can be credited with being honest.

Why should I care one iota about people taking over my job be it in another part of the country or another continent I cannot wish them well and if you think that is wrong then the is something wrong with you.

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

It's a shame that Virgin Media don't command at least a little respect from you for feeding you and keeping a roof over your head for years. If they had known this in advance, perhaps they wouldn't have taken you on in the first pace.

Why would they have my respect they closed my place of work and moved the positions elsewhere in a underhand and disreputable manner, no employer that behaves in such a way can demand respect.

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

You cannot, however, speak unilaterally for your former colleagues. I would imagine that they have a less selfish and more respectful outlook on life than yourself.

Somehow I rather doubt it considering we are talking about 400+ people, the majority have jobs but will never feel any respect towards Virgin Media after the way we were treated

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Another reason that I believe that this is short sighted behaviour is the reaction of your current employer to seeing you turn on your former employer at the drop of a hat for a potential quick easy buck.

Don't allow yourself to believe that it's done you any favours...

I really think you should seek urgent medical attention as you seem to have serious issues with regards facts, reality and extremes of fantasy as they all seem to merge into one in your posts.

______________________________________

The closure of the Albert Dock meant that people who were very good at their job were to all intents and purposes dumped on the scrapheap with a few moving to Swansea which may work in the short term if you have no ties up here, but the offer to move down their was never a realistic option for the majority.

Luckily the majority found work quite quickly and easily due to their skills which is something budding employers look for in new staff, a few have set themselves up in business and appear to being thriving in their new positions.

One or two took a lot longer to find a position that appealed to them which was their prerogative.

Some moved to other positions up in the Northwest staying within Virgin Media, so apart from those few people the vast majority feel nothing but anger towards Virgin Media because of the way they went about the closure especially its announcement in the Liverpool Echo prior to the Albert Dock staff being told which was shockingly unproffesional to say the least.

As for myself I will always work in the way expected of me by any employer because that is the way I am unless they do as Virgin Media did to the former employees from the Albert Dock.

If the CWU win and we are awarded compensation I will be happy but as happy as I would have been if my job had stayed at the Albert Dock because I would have still been working there to this day, you may wonder why I say this and my answer is that I was good at my job and I enjoyed it which is something not many people can ever truly say about their jobs.

[MovedGoalPosts]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Another reason that I believe that this is short sighted behaviour is the reaction of your current employer to seeing you turn on your former employer at the drop of a hat for a potential quick easy buck.

I do hope that this does not indicate your stalking of members of this forum by following them from one employer to another to seek each employer's opinions on their staff