Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

[ianch99]

Vince Cable accurately sums up the attitude of a significant numbers of (older) Leavers:

Vince Cable: Young 'shafted' over Brexit

Older people who voted for Brexit have "comprehensively shafted the young", Sir Vince Cable has said.

Writing in the Mail on Sunday, the Lib Dem leader accused the over-65s of being "self-declared martyrs" who claim leaving the EU is worth the cost.

"The martyrdom of the old comes cheap," he said, as fewer have jobs to lose and living standards are protected by the triple lock on pensions.

"For the Brexit martyrs, paradise beckons," he added.

Quoting statistics that 64% of over-65s voted for Brexit - compared with 71% of under-25s who voted Remain - Sir Vince said he was "struck by the heavily Remain sentiment in colleges and schools, and the heavily Brexit mood of church-hall meetings packed with retired people" during the referendum campaign.

He claimed that austerity measures had largely affected the working population, with pensioners suffering "relatively little" after the financial crisis.

Young people, he said, have the added problems of "prohibitive housing costs, growing job insecurity and limited career progression".

"The old have comprehensively shafted the young," added Sir Vince. "And the old have had the last word about Brexit, imposing a world view coloured by nostalgia for an imperial past on a younger generation much more comfortable with modern Europe."

I liked his last remark

"At this rate, we will have Brexit thought crimes before long," said Sir Vince.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

It was not a promise, it was a lie as we don't send that amount to Brussels.

You keep telling yourself this. I don't agree that any lie was given. I accept that the figure was clearly incorrect because it did not take into account regarding reductions for rebates & benefits. But I do not accept a lie was made.

And in any sense, it did not help me to sway my vote to leave the failing corrupt entity.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Mick

You keep telling yourself this. I don't agree that any lie was given. I accept that the figure was clearly incorrect because it did not take into account regarding reductions for rebates & benefits. But I do not accept a lie was made.

And in any sense, it did not help me to sway my vote to leave the failing corrupt entity.

Lie: "a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood"

Seems black and white to me.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Mr K said sarcastically "At least we've given them a nice ever warming climate..." suggesting that we've contributed to global warming.

Your reply to him says "First of all....these so called kids caring about the environment?" and then go on to criticise them for littering Glastonbury.

Mr K has never said that the so-called kids have cared about the environment. You make this argument yourself then proceed to pull it apart. That's the definition of a straw man argument.

No it's not.

I stand by my post because we can't have folk like Mr K, make out that one set of specific people have caused more harm to the environment and then the young are suppose to be not part of this cause ?

Utter rubbish, literally.

Originally Posted by ianch99

Lie: "a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood"

Seems black and white to me.

Yes, the definition of the word 'Lie', is black and white, no argument regarding the semantics.

But I don't agree it applied to the 'suggestion' Boris and Gove made.

Nor do I agree with Lord Sugar's assertion that criminal records have to be issued. It's remainers desperation and clutching at straws because they struggle to accept, they lost.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

Yes, the definition of the word 'Lie', is black and white, no argument regarding the semantics.

But I don't agree it applied to the 'suggestion' Boris and Gove made.

Nor do I agree with Lord Sugar's assertion that criminal records have to issued. It's remainers desperation and clutching at straws because they struggle to accept, they lost.

The obvious lie resides in the first sentence. It was a lie to say we send £350m a week to the EU when the true figure is £250m or less. This was exasperated by their not correcting it when told. You accept that £350m was wrong "I'm well aware of the true figure" which implies you accept the £350m was a lie.
As to the suggestion that it go instead t the NHS, some marketing materials painted this as a suggestion, some painted it as an explicit promise. The more centrally-controlled the promotional materials, the vaguer the promise!

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

No it's not.

I stand by my post because we can't have folk like Mr K, make out that one set of specific people have caused more harm to the environment and then the young are suppose to be not part of this cause ?

Utter rubbish, literally.

Mr K has not talked about rubbish. He's talked about us leaving a legacy of global warming to future generations and that is correct.

He's also not said one set of people has done more harm to the environment than another set.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Mr K has not talked about rubbish. He's talked about us leaving a legacy of global warming to future generations and that is correct.

He's also not said one set of people has done more harm to the environment than another set.

No but he insinuated it. I still stand by my post!

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

No but he insinuated it. I still stand by my post!

Whilst I can't read any insinuation into his words whatsoever, the only person who can say for sure is the man himself who doubtless has better things to do on a sunny Sunday then spend it on a forum with the likes of you and me.

[daveeb]

Originally Posted by Mick

First of all....these so called kids caring about the environment?

Stop taking the piss, remember Glastonbury Music Festival, where Corbyn preaching about saving the Earth, to these kids, blah blah?

Remember the scene after the event. Rubbish left everywhere by these caring kids you speak of.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/gl...-a3572861.html



Yeah sure, the young care about the environment. The pictures taken after the event, showing the rubbish strewn all over the place, left by the young, show this is total bollocks.

Secondly, no, the old people have not messed up anything for the young at all. The EU is a failing pile of garbage. #StillNoRegrets

How can you leave a site with 200,000 people attending without a serious footprint afterwards. The fact that 15000 bins were overflowing suggests the organisers need to supply more bins. I'll bet if there had been 200,000 friends of the earth there you'd still get a load of mess, it's inevitable wherever there are large groups of people. At least it was relatively easy to clean the damage up afterwards.

Originally Posted by daveeb

How can you leave a site with 200,000 people attending without a serious footprint afterwards. The fact that 15000 bins were overflowing suggests the organisers need to supply more bins. I'll bet if there had been 200,000 friends of the earth there you'd still get a load of mess, it's inevitable wherever there are large groups of people. At least it was relatively easy to clean the damage up afterwards.

I do not call a £785,000 clean up bill, 'easy'.

Event Organisers to event guests: "Please take home your tents."

Guests to other guest friends: "Leave the tent and all the other crap just strewn about, the bins are full, but we cannot be arsed to clean up our own waste and place it in bags or carrier bags and take it home, you know, just to help out and still be friendly to the Earth."

Are we still seriously discussing the damn bus it's not as though there weren't plenty of lies on both sides during the referendum campaign this obsession by some on the bus i guess allows them to ignore the lies remain spread during the campaign. Until i read about it here i didn't even know about the bus so it certainly didn't influence my vote and none of those i know that voted leave were influenced by a slogan on a bus. Both sides ran an utterly abysmal campaign there is no high ground to be taken by either side in relation to the campaigns and the only ones that suffered were those who were not already certain how they would vote as no real information was readily available for them from the campaigns.

[nomadking]

The £350m figure wasn't correct, it is more.

The figures, from the UK's current account published by the Office for National Statistics, say that, before the application of the rebate, the UK's gross contribution was £19.6bn a year - about £376m a week.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

The £350m figure wasn't correct, it is more.

The weekly amount sent to Brussels is always after the rebate. It's less than £250m and therefore less than £376m.
That's why I posted that fact-checking link to help us all be on the same page.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

The weekly amount sent to Brussels is always after the rebate. It's less than £250m and therefore less than £376m.
That's why I posted that fact-checking link to help us all be on the same page.

1) It took several years to get the rebate, so all that time there was no rebate,
2) The rebate is far from guaranteed and if we had voted to stay it would almost have certainly been stopped. It had already been reduced.
Either way it is a TRUE reflection of what we have had to pay in the past, what they want us to pay, and what we would have to pay in the near future if we stayed.

The level of the UK rebate is decided every seven years, as part of the EU's long-term budget, the Multiannual Financial Framework (MFF), which is negotiated by the EU leaders. The long-term budget determines EU spending levels and priorities and it has to be approved unanimously by all 28 EU leaders.

IE if just one EU country disagrees with the rebate, then no rebate at all.

Tony Blair last night brokered an agreement on the EU budget which will see Britain give up £7bn of the rebate negotiated by Margaret Thatcher more than 20 years ago as part of a broad deal to pay the bill for Europe's enlargement to the east.