Eurozone will collapse...

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Hate it or love it we cannot divorce ourselves from Europe.Historically we've tried it in the past and we always get dragged back in one way or another.We have far more in common with them than other parts of the globe.

I think an amicable divorce would be fine. I live near my neighbours, we lend each other things, buy and sell items and indeed services from one another, co-operate in community projects, but we aren't married. By a similar token political union is entirely unnecessary to free trade in Europe.

I'd also question that we have more in common with them than the Anglophone nations of Australia, Canada and, to a lesser extent, the United States, not to mention former Commonwealth states.

European states had their own identities a long time ago and while we may share roots with them Australia, Canada and the United States are more than cousins, they're the UK's grown up 'offspring'. They may have gone their own way now but similarities are unmistakable, even if in the case of the USA they've gone out of their way to shake them off.

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

I think an amicable divorce would be fine. I live near my neighbours, we lend each other things, buy and sell items and indeed services from one another, co-operate in community projects, but we aren't married. By a similar token political union is entirely unnecessary to free trade in Europe.

I'd also question that we have more in common with them than the Anglophone nations of Australia, Canada and, to a lesser extent, the United States, not to mention former Commonwealth states.

European states had their own identities a long time ago and while we may share roots with them Australia, Canada and the United States are more than cousins, they're the UK's grown up 'offspring'. They may have gone their own way now but similarities are unmistakable, even if in the case of the USA they've gone out of their way to shake them off.

But there are as many differences between us and our former colonies too.For one our history with them is far shorter than that with our neighbours and Australia,Canada and the US are as much connected to Europe as we are seeing as many of the residents of those country look back to their mother countries in Europe where their ancestors emigrated from.

[richard s]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

I'd also question that we have more in common with them than the Anglophone nations of Australia, Canada and, to a lesser extent, the United States, not to mention former Commonwealth states.

European states had their own identities a long time ago and while we may share roots with them Australia, Canada and the United States are more than cousins, they're the UK's grown up 'offspring'. They may have gone their own way now but similarities are unmistakable, even if in the case of the USA they've gone out of their way to shake them off.

Do not forget to mention our ancestors influence on the British Isles: Romans, Saxons, Vikings, Normans.

Some on the 'hard left' are celebrating a bit too soon about this result. Greece hasn't been saved yet and it's looking quite likely that Germany will not bow to their demands to reduce the debt they owe. This could get very sticky for Greece and the Eurozone has spent the last few years limiting their exposure to the point where they are less concerned about them

[Ignitionnet]

Coalition all sewed up it seems.

David Cameron's comments on this were fairly contemptible.

The Greek election will increase economic uncertainty across Europe. That's why the UK must stick to our plan, delivering security at home.

Pretty hypocritical unless they plan on reneging on their referendum pledge. That's hardly good for stability in Europe. Also shows a fairly high degree of disdain for a nation exercising their democratic rights, and is seriously lacking in class to use another country's election to score points.

EDIT: While we're at it...

UK Prime Minister David Cameron's spokeswoman says he "respects the decision of the Greek people" but adds: "Greece needs to deal with its deficit and meet its international commitments."

Anyone remember us being told that if it weren't for Dave and Gideon's tough decisions we'd end up like Greece? I suspect those two would take a primary surplus (Their budget aside from interest payments on debts Greece is in balance) right now. More worried about getting re-elected though.

[Osem]

Greece's new government will find little support among eurozone policymakers for a debt write-off, a senior finance chief has said.

Jeroen Dijsselbloem, who heads the eurozone finance ministers' group, said Greece must "stick to the rules".

Speaking before a Eurogroup meeting on Monday, he said; "There is very little support for a write off in Europe

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30977714

[Matth]

I'd like to see an assurance that Britain will not pour good money after bad into propping up the Euro - hang on, didn't we already sell a large part of our gold reserves at a low, to prop up this artificial invented currency before.

We are not part of the Eurozone, but still suffer for it - THAT MUST END.

We should be prepared to deliver the coup de grace, rather than a rescue, putting a merciful end to the grandiose political experiment.

We voted for the "common market" - AND NOTHING ELSE.

[Ignitionnet]

No-one forced the Eurozone to jump to the defence of its banks that had lent money to Greece.

Let's cut through the ******** here - the Greek bailout was not a bailout for Greece, it was a bailout for all the largely German, French and Dutch banks that had loaned Greece money, and needed paying guaranteed and via the Greek taxpayer.

Had they not been so obsessed with the dogma of ever closer union and been willing to accept that they had screwed up and amputate the limb, rather than refuse to on the grounds that it would show that Euro membership were not permanent and immovable, things would perhaps have been different.

See Iceland for what happens when a nation state doesn't make itself a slave to the private sector - it does rather well in the medium term.

The private sector messed up when it made those loans, banks should've folded as a result rather than being propped up by the taxpayer.

That's been the major problem with the Euro farce; zero risk to bankers as when the private sector have made mistakes the taxpayer has jumped in to rescue them rather than risk the ideological experiment.

The private sector has zero excuse for not doing its homework and seeing Greece as the basket case it was, and Germany certainly showed no hesitation when its banks were essentially loaning Greece money to buy Germany's exports.

---------- Post added at 00:57 ---------- Previous post was at 00:52 ----------

Originally Posted by Matth

hang on, didn't we already sell a large part of our gold reserves at a low, to prop up this artificial invented currency before.

Gold was sold because the worldwide banking system had made the wrong bet on where gold prices were going to go and our dear Chancellor of the time decided to lower the gold price to keep them afloat by selling our reserves at a rock bottom price.

Basically the entire UK took a hit to keep rent seeking *******s who add nothing to the global economy in terms of actual value wealthy. Good isn't it?

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Anyone remember us being told that if it weren't for Dave and Gideon's tough decisions we'd end up like Greece? I suspect those two would take a primary surplus (Their budget aside from interest payments on debts Greece is in balance) right now. More worried about getting re-elected though.

To be fair, the reason New Democracy has just been eviscerated in favour of a hard-left protest party is because that primary surplus has come at the cost of truly massive unemployment. Youth unemployment has been as high as 62%. Even Gideon and Dave would balk at that. The price the Greek people have paid for the illusion of budget stability has been just too high.

[richard s]

The rich Greeks have not been paying their fair share of taxes or non at all to help their own country (also corruption), yet when the EU helps them out (though severe austerity is being suffered) they turn on the hand that tries to help them.

I believe that Europe will only get stronger.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by richard s

The rich Greeks have not been paying their fair share of taxes or non at all to help their own country (also corruption), yet when the EU helps them out (though severe austerity is being suffered) they turn on the hand that tries to help them.

I believe that Europe will only get stronger.

The EU countries helped out their banks and their project, not Greece.

[Osem]

Their precious, irreversible and unassailable vanity project which they refuse to compromise on. The only voices these people really listen to are their own and those which toe the line - those with the temerity to disagree are treated with contempt and asked again until they give the right answer. We can disagree about the rights and wrongs of the EU but IMHO there's not much doubt about the inevitable outcome when a group of blinkered and uncompromising politicians acquire too much power and it isn't pretty...

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Chris

To be fair, the reason New Democracy has just been eviscerated in favour of a hard-left protest party is because that primary surplus has come at the cost of truly massive unemployment. Youth unemployment has been as high as 62%. Even Gideon and Dave would balk at that. The price the Greek people have paid for the illusion of budget stability has been just too high.

A big reason the Conservatives aren't going to be eviscerated in this election is thanks to running the economy with one eye on the election for the entire duration of the parliament. It's storing up a lot of problems for the future sadly.

[Osem]

According to what I've heard from a certain Max Keiser (Keiser Report)...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Keiser

... big trouble is indeed ahead and apparently unavoidable. We're all doomed and it's just a matter of time. Reminds me of another doom predicting American finance expert who used to appear on LBC and TV regularly- Bob Beckman...

[Ignitionnet]

To be fair to Max I think we've all underestimated the lengths to which politicians will go to protect banks and get re-elected.