[MERGED] Poll: Same Sex civil marriages, yes or no.

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

how many % anti-gay is it then

Thats the question, it is the way to understand the text!

[denphone]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17249099

The government's plans for gay marriage have been criticised by the most senior Roman Catholic cleric in Britain.

Cardinal Keith O'Brien, the leader of the Catholic Church in Scotland, said the plans were a "grotesque subversion of a universally accepted human right".

He said the idea of redefining marriage, which David Cameron has said he supports, would "shame the United Kingdom in the eyes of the world".

Will some people ever change their attitudes.

[peanut]

Attitudes or beliefs..

Just because society and times changes doesn't mean you have to agree with it all.

I don't care enough either way, I have my own opinion which doesn't change a thing but I'm all for someone for standing up for an opposition. Seems to me if you don't conform you get labeled.

The differences in the way gays have been treated over the years have been huge, when will they ever be happy with the way things are. I just don't like being told what I should and shouldn't accept just because politicians and society says so.

[Kymmy]

Originally Posted by Cardinal O'Brien

Same-sex marriage would eliminate entirely in law the basic idea of a mother and a father for every child. It would create a society which deliberately chooses to deprive a child of either a mother or a father.

What the hell has marriage got to do with the ability to have children?? Gay couples can adopt/surrogate whether they are married or not and I'm sure that same sex marriages will have little impact on the number of children out there..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17249099

I wonder what that means for my brother and his wife's marriage, as they do not intend to have children (and as he is 60, and she is 50, it is highly unlikely now...).

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by peanut

way gays have been treated over the years have been huge, when will they ever be happy with the way things are. I just don't like being told what I should and shouldn't accept just because politicians and society says so.

Why should they be happy that they are being treated differently? Would you say the same if black people were banned from marrying?

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Kymmy

What the hell has marriage got to do with the ability to have children?? Gay couples can adopt/surrogate whether they are married or not and I'm sure that same sex marriages will have little impact on the number of children out there..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17249099

I'm not sticking up for him or condoning his words but I think he means collectively. If gay marriage is legalised universally it appears he believes it will affect the number of children that have a mother and father together.

I stress I'm not saying I agree with him - just trying to make sense of his words.

[Kymmy]

I'm still trying (yet failing) to make sense of the words Russ.. If someone is likely to be in a gay marriage it stands to reason that they wouldn't want to be in a hetrosexual marriage and have children..

I've seen to many children hurt by the men trying to hide behind a hetrosexual marriage when they are gay especially those who were brought up before the legalisation of homosexuality. It's a very outdated viewpoint...

Originally Posted by Kymmy

I'm still trying (yet failing) to make sense of the words Russ.. If someone is likely to be in a gay marriage it stands to reason that they wouldn't want to be in a hetrosexual marriage and have children..

I've seen to many children hurt by the men trying to hide behind a hetrosexual marriage when they are gay especially those who were brought up before the legalisation of homosexuality. It's a very outdated viewpoint...

It would create a society which deliberately chooses to deprive a child of either a mother or a father.

I think he is trying to say in very backward way that the only way to raise a child correctly is with a father and mother ,any other way i.e 2 women or 2 men ,is wrong and doing a dis-service to the child and by legalising gay marriage society is somehow compounding the wrongness of not having a mother and father .He is of course assuming that all traditional marriages are perfect and the children never suffer ,he is also assuming that the children of gay marriages actually care if both parents are male or female

[danielf]

Like others I am really struggling to make any sense of what the Cardinal is trying to say. Whatever slant I try to put on it, his remarks remain so fundamentally wrong.

Some interesting comments on the Beeb.

What century is this person living in? "grotesque subversion of a universally accepted human right"? Well, if it's a "universally accepted human right", then there is NOTHING to stop same sex couples marrying. Unless, of course, the dear cardinal is implying homosexuals are not human.
Utter rubbish.

It is a shame he is not so vocal in his condemnation of the abuse suffered by thousands of children at the hands of Catholic priests and institutions, which have left Rome 'shamed in the eyes of the world'.

I don't see why two people getting married is anyone else's business. If two people love each other enough, power to them.

Celibate man in a frock criticises gay marriage.

Just about sums it up...

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Typical of an institution (Catholic church) in decline, he still seems to think that what he says actually matters to most people.

Whilst it may be in decline i think what he says matters to about 1 billion people

Marriage is not the property of the church these days, it is controled by the state. If the state decides that Gay marriage will happen then the church is powerless to prevent it anywhere else than on it's own premesis.

I can't understand why cardinals and the catholic church are getting involved in this ,it isn't going to affect them anyway as the catholic church will never allow gay marriages anyway and the British government cannot force them to

I've just posted this in the other thread but it fits here as well .What has the UK government allowing gay marriage got to do with the catholic church ?

[danielf]

Originally Posted by martyh

I've just posted this in the other thread but it fits here as well .What has the UK government allowing gay marriage got to do with the catholic church ?

I suppose they can have their opinion, just as anyone else.

[rogerdraig]

not a yes or no answer really as i couldnt care less if civil marriages are allowed but i would object if that then leads to a law saying that religious buildings have to allow them

[Kymmy]

You don;t stop one law to prevent another, each law should be judged on their own merit.

As stated in previous posts of mine in this thread a lot of churches are quite happy to bless gay couples so it's not really the issue..