Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock

[pabscars]

That's not good

[Digital Fanatic]

Originally Posted by pabscars

That's not good

The problem you've got now is that the new 2nd line teams have nobody to turn to.

The average length of service of the 2nd line teams in Liverpool is about 8 years - you simply cannot replace that knowledge.

[pabscars]

Originally Posted by Digital Fanatic

The problem you've got now is that the new 2nd line teams have nobody to turn to.

The average length of service of the 2nd line teams in Liverpool is about 8 years - you simply cannot replace that knowledge.

Agreed, I just assumed that 2nd line were called that because they had the necessary knowledge to problem solve past the usual 1st line dross.

From what your saying, it sounds like the new 2nd line peeps and basically English speaking 1st line agent's on a better salary

I would have thought a company the size of VM would have systems in place to ensure a transition of knowledge is passed on, ie retain at all cost's a certain percentage of old 2nd line staff to go down and train the new 2nd line guys.

[Digital Fanatic]

Originally Posted by pabscars

Agreed, I just assumed that 2nd line were called that because they had the necessary knowledge to problem solve past the usual 1st line dross.

From what your saying, it sounds like the new 2nd line peeps and basically English speaking 1st line agent's on a better salary

I would have thought a company the size of VM would have systems in place to ensure a transition of knowledge is passed on, ie retain at all cost's a certain percentage of old 2nd line staff to go down and train the new 2nd line guys.

You've got it in one mate. Nice people and I wish them luck, but...

They've had some training, but they had to lower the test score pass rate (by a lot!) for them, so that tells you something! lol

VM have done nothing to keep the knowledge that Liverpool had, they didn't care about loosing it... their answer to that question was "we are prepared to take the hit on this"... they have been rather foolish IMO.

[TheWolf]

My understanding was that Virgin sent staff from Liverpool 2nd line down to Swansea to do the training. That happened in November. Training would probably have lasted up until January so the guys in fairness are still new. Any new job takes time to get to grips with, besides if the staff know as little as you say they do then that speaks volumes for the staff that went to Swansea to train the job out.
I also hear that alternative roles were on offer but the majority of the Liverpool team were unsuccessful in their applications?!
Sounds like sour grapes to me.

[Digital Fanatic]

Originally Posted by TheWolf

My understanding was that Virgin sent staff from Liverpool 2nd line down to Swansea to do the training. That happened in November. Training would probably have lasted up until January so the guys in fairness are still new. Any new job takes time to get to grips with, besides if the staff know as little as you say they do then that speaks volumes for the staff that went to Swansea to train the job out.
I also hear that alternative roles were on offer but the majority of the Liverpool team were unsuccessful in their applications?!
Sounds like sour grapes to me.

Think what you like mate... just telling it as it is. Are you a VM Swansea staff member?

Yes some staff did go down to train them, but you can't get more than 8 years experience in 2 months.

No sour grapes... wish them all the luck in the world, I really do.

Not sure what your last sentence is about though?

BTW to the forum

[TheWolf]

I left VM in August, just before the announcement, kind of regret not staying now. I still have some close friends there - some in the new 2nd line and a few still in 1st line. I saw petes post on here and thought it was out of order, not all of those guys will hit the ground running but they all deserve a chance.

Thanks for the welcome btw

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by TheWolf

My understanding was that Virgin sent staff from Liverpool 2nd line down to Swansea to do the training. That happened in November. Training would probably have lasted up until January so the guys in fairness are still new. Any new job takes time to get to grips with, besides if the staff know as little as you say they do then that speaks volumes for the staff that went to Swansea to train the job out.
I also hear that alternative roles were on offer but the majority of the Liverpool team were unsuccessful in their applications?!
Sounds like sour grapes to me.

I'm not so sure that I would be worried about doing a good job of training if I was training someone to take my job. I have worked somewhere where selected people were asked to stay on, I refused but a few others took the extra months work but were only doing it for the extra money.

It's typical big arrogant company attitude thinking all that's required is 'A bit of training' It's why these sort of companies end up lacking employees with the correct skills, knowledge and experience

[Digital Fanatic]

Originally Posted by Escapee

I'm not so sure that I would be worried about doing a good job of training if I was training someone to take my job. I have worked somewhere where selected people were asked to stay on, I refused but a few others took the extra months work but were only doing it for the extra money.

It's typical big arrogant company attitude thinking all that's required is 'A bit of training' It's why these sort of companies end up lacking employees with the correct skills, knowledge and experience

Exactly.

Myself (and I'm sure Peter) have nothing against anyone in Swansea, as I've said they nice people. It's VM thinking it's just a bit of training for a 2nd line role that's wrong.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Peter_

I would not have gone as I did need feel the need to go due to my circumstances, many more will feel the same.

It is also a question of trust,could you ever truly feel safe with a company who are willing to make 435 people redundant and lose the accrued knowledge in that workplace which can never be replaced.

Try reading some of the answers the new 2nd line guys ( join dates November 2011 onwards ) are giving on the community forum, they are answers you would not even expect from an agent just out of Grad bay and even the members are questioning some answers given.

If they are the future expect many more disgruntled customers either leaving or seeking help elsewhere.

I'll take a look.

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

yes I want to see more of this.

could this be done with call centre work? probably but companies like VM likely want to directly supervise their staff which I think is the main barrier.

Supervision can be dealt with by static and remote controlled webcams, monitoring of the quality and quantity of work done eg computer generated stats, discreet monitoring of emails written, 'phone calls etc

Originally Posted by Peter_

It can be done quite easily this company already does it but it is a Zero hours contract and you earn your holiday money as you go which is on top of the basic wage.

You just need a hard wired computer and a home office with a phone line, you incur no costs as it is all computer based and they have team managers remote listening and call stats, so it is just a virtual call centre.

Indeed! The trials I mentioned go even further than this

Originally Posted by pabscars

Agreed, I just assumed that 2nd line were called that because they had the necessary knowledge to problem solve past the usual 1st line dross.

From what your saying, it sounds like the new 2nd line peeps and basically English speaking 1st line agent's on a better salary

I would have thought a company the size of VM would have systems in place to ensure a transition of knowledge is passed on, ie retain at all cost's a certain percentage of old 2nd line staff to go down and train the new 2nd line guys.

Indeed, and this process does not appear to have not been carried out as well as it could have been, to say the least.

---------- Post added at 00:23 ---------- Previous post was at 00:19 ----------

Originally Posted by Digital Fanatic

You've got it in one mate. Nice people and I wish them luck, but...

They've had some training, but they had to lower the test score pass rate (by a lot!) for them, so that tells you something! lol

VM have done nothing to keep the knowledge that Liverpool had, they didn't care about loosing it... their answer to that question was "we are prepared to take the hit on this"... they have been rather foolish IMO.

Is this the impression that you've gleaned from the company, or was it an individual who actually said "we are prepared to take the hit on this"?

Originally Posted by Escapee

I'm not so sure that I would be worried about doing a good job of training if I was training someone to take my job. I have worked somewhere where selected people were asked to stay on, I refused but a few others took the extra months work but were only doing it for the extra money.

It's typical big arrogant company attitude thinking all that's required is 'A bit of training' It's why these sort of companies end up lacking employees with the correct skills, knowledge and experience

That fault was down to management, who should have put measures in place to ensure that the staff doing the training did a good job of it eg payment by results.

[Digital Fanatic]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

I'll take a look.



Supervision can be dealt with by static and remote controlled webcams, monitoring of the quality and quantity of work done eg computer generated stats, discreet monitoring of emails written, 'phone calls etc



Indeed! The trials I mentioned go even further than this



Indeed, and this process does not appear to have not been carried out as well as it could have been, to say the least.

---------- Post added at 00:23 ---------- Previous post was at 00:19 ----------



Is this the impression that you've gleaned from the company, or was it an individual who actually said "we are prepared to take the hit on this"?



That fault was down to management, who should have put measures in place to ensure that the staff doing the training did a good job of it eg payment by results.

A Virgin Media Director who was in charge of closing Albert Dock and Swansea becoming a In-House centre. It was said to a group of staff, including myself.

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by pabscars

Agreed, I just assumed that 2nd line were called that because they had the necessary knowledge to problem solve past the usual 1st line dross.

From what your saying, it sounds like the new 2nd line peeps and basically English speaking 1st line agent's on a better salary

I would have thought a company the size of VM would have systems in place to ensure a transition of knowledge is passed on, ie retain at all cost's a certain percentage of old 2nd line staff to go down and train the new 2nd line guys.

They wrote a handbook out for them to try and replace the knowledge and experience being lost, which is the equivalent of giving them one of those Windows books for dummies that you can buy, you need to be able to interpret the book and have at least some of your own knowledge to combine the two but in reality it will not work.

---------- Post added at 15:22 ---------- Previous post was at 15:16 ----------

Originally Posted by TheWolf

I left VM in August, just before the announcement, kind of regret not staying now. I still have some close friends there - some in the new 2nd line and a few still in 1st line. I saw petes post on here and thought it was out of order, not all of those guys will hit the ground running but they all deserve a chance.

Thanks for the welcome btw

Unless you are actually aware of what the new 2nd line are replacing with regards knowledge then you cannot really comment.

Also first line agents should not have to point out which way to go when calling for help.

Also have you read some of the replies given on the community forum as even the other members are questioning some of them, some make you cringe and even I have corrected a few posts.

Just because you worked with some of the new guys at Swansea it does not mean that they can actually replace the guys from Liverpool.

Also in answer to your sour grapes jibe, if any of the Albert Dock 2nd line team had applied they would have got a job down there quite easily but strangely most have lives, families and mortgages up here so not an easy move, plus the are many jobs up here for them to apply for.

---------- Post added at 15:27 ---------- Previous post was at 15:22 ----------

Originally Posted by Digital Fanatic

Exactly.

Myself (and I'm sure Peter) have nothing against anyone in Swansea, as I've said they nice people. It's VM thinking it's just a bit of training for a 2nd line role that's wrong.

I have nothing against the people of Swansea as I have been down there in the past and for a young man with a Liverpool accent it was certainly a good place to have some fun with the local girls/women, I have some rather nice memories of my time down there, it was like taking sweets from a baby.

Anyone moving down there will enjoy themselves as long as they are aware of the requirement to stay for a minimum of 2 years or they will be liable for the moving expenses.

---------- Post added at 15:32 ---------- Previous post was at 15:27 ----------

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Supervision can be dealt with by static and remote controlled webcams, monitoring of the quality and quantity of work done eg computer generated stats, discreet monitoring of emails written, 'phone calls etc
.

The would be no requirement for webcams as we are in peoples homes and that would be intrusive, anything company wise would be via an intranet/workaway so they would not be able to access the employees own computer so everything the manager would see would be on the intranet/workaway.

[Itshim]

This is the way it works the world over. Have friends working in ILRC since they left school. know there jobs inside out, So jumped up know it alls straight of Uni. Say that every one must work from a script. Which they have written with out fail every week memos are sent around saying things are wrong. However look out if you fail to tow the party line. The "big boss" in there office was promoted from custom & excise & does not have a clue is, never seen & complains about everything - Latest Memo you must give your FULL first name ie Thomas not Tom even if you never use it. Hey you can even be put on a report for not doing so.
Give power and it shows how stupid some people can be. Never let anyone who knows what they are doing( Liverpool) keep the job its cheaper to give a script and hope for the best. please note the Liverpool jobs have come to my part of the world ( better then else were but still a daft move I feel.
Feel better now that is off my chest. Sorry

[TheWolf]

How much difference is there in reallity to 1st and 2nd line? hardly any, although I'm sure you'll disagree. They just have a couple of more applications with a higher level of access. My guess is that 99% of the current liverpool 2nd line were originaly 1st line?? So what's the difference here? Yes it's a fresh start and a couple of knowledgeable people are leaving the company but at the end of the day nobody is irreplaceable in any job role. And correct me if I'm wrong but there are 3 or 4 staff in the Swansea 2nd line who have over 10 years service and previous experience in 2nd line when it was based in south wales a few years back?
I've browsed the Virgin forum but can't see anything alarming at all, maybe a few mistakes with grammar but so what, wasn't Albert Einstein dyslexic? he seems to have done ok for himself.
And talking of cringing, your paragraph about taking sweets from a child? That made me cringe!

See you around.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

That fault was down to management, who should have put measures in place to ensure that the staff doing the training did a good job of it eg payment by results.

Alas, it is too late when the experienced people are down the road signing on and the inexperienced with a bit of training are holding the reins.

Unfortunately it's the same 'just a little bit of training attitude' by management in most industries and most big companies these days.

In the industry and company I work for a similar problem exists, it has at last been recognised that they have too few engineers with RF experience. I have been employed working with RF for almost 30 years, and I probably have the least years under my belt compared to the other experienced guys at the company.

Management are expecting us to run some training courses so we can pass on our knowledge and have some of the other guys up to speed in no time!

I have long ago come to the conclusion that I must be a very slow learner if I have been at it for 30 years and I'm still learning

It does have a positive side though, the guys with real experience are in demand and the ones likely to retain their jobs or get another if required.