Will Scotland Leave the UK?

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Jimi

Cornwall wants Independence,word is that Yorkshire wants it tae,I might be wrong but the break up will happen eventually,maybe not in my lifetime but it will come.

It won't happen. When your lot and ours were offered devolution and all we managed was a glorified town council (the Welsh Assembly) it was rumoured that back then that for some reason Yorkshire wanted its own assembly, followed by some other regions. It didn't materialise in those days and it won't now.

In all seriousness, you're clearly very confident of a Yes result but have you actually considered what you (personally, not the Scots) will do if it's a 'no'? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely interested. I'm sure even AS has some sort of contingency plan. If it doesn't go your way I'm hoping you'll accept the result and not look to blame any sort of conspiracy etc, I'm fairly certain enough people have access to the internet to check on whatever claims are being made and judge for themselves if they're real.

If it turns out as a 'no' (I'm not too bothered either way but I think I'd prefer a United Kingdom) it's unlikely another vote will be allowed for many years, decades even. What will you do in the meantime?

Labour held a referendum on regional devolution in the northeast IIRC - it failed.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Jimi

Good tae see you join the debate mate.
I have no worries if there's no plan b simply because we don't need one.
What really sticks in my throat is the utter nonsense that is being spouted by BT.
A few examples,Justine Greening in yesterday's Sunday Times that a yes vote would be a huge blow tae Third World countries,pure nonsense,Scotland ( oh yes we do) donates more per head tae charity than the rest of the U.K.
I won't even start on that ******** of a man? George Robertson,a Lord? Aye right!!!
Passports to enter England,Currency,no chance,we're not getting it,blah blah blah,yes we are.
Trident,you can have it,thank you.
We'd lose tv shows,wow,the **** that comes from the BBC,you can have that tae.
Roaming charges,the guy who thought that up needs tae be certified and licked up for life.
I could go on and on,the list is endless but what I will say is that many folk in Scotland are disheartened by the fact that no matter whether NL or Tories are in power everything is based in London,money wise.
Cornwall wants Independence,word is that Yorkshire wants it tae,I might be wrong but the break up will happen eventually,maybe not in my lifetime but it will come.

Yes men really don't listen do they? You've been told a few times. Ow the the pound won't be kept and that Scotland will have different taxes and rates.

Scotland would be a separate Country so they could require border checks to enter England Ireland and Wales.

Also don't be silly. Everything needs a plan B. Fat Alex doesn't even have a proper plan A.

[Osem]

Jimi's just articulated the SNP's new referendum slogan:

"Plan B? We haven't got a Plan A!"

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Osem

Jimi's just articulated the SNP's new referendum slogan:

"Plan B? We haven't got a Plan A!"

[Mr Pharmacist]

[Jimi]

Originally Posted by Russ

It won't happen. When your lot and ours were offered devolution and all we managed was a glorified town council (the Welsh Assembly) it was rumoured that back then that for some reason Yorkshire wanted its own assembly, followed by some other regions. It didn't materialise in those days and it won't now.

In all seriousness, you're clearly very confident of a Yes result but have you actually considered what you (personally, not the Scots) will do if it's a 'no'? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely interested. I'm sure even AS has some sort of contingency plan. If it doesn't go your way I'm hoping you'll accept the result and not look to blame any sort of conspiracy etc, I'm fairly certain enough people have access to the internet to check on whatever claims are being made and judge for themselves if they're real.

If it turns out as a 'no' (I'm not too bothered either way but I think I'd prefer a United Kingdom) it's unlikely another vote will be allowed for many years, decades even. What will you do in the meantime?

If it all goes tits up then so be it,I'm pretty sure it will be hard going,there's no doubt about it whatsoever,but we will have tae knuckle down,take the good with the bad,it holds no fears for me at all.
I've been slagged something awful in recent months but instead of disappearing I give as good as I get though some of it has been hostile,but hey,that's the nature of message boards.
Another forum I'm on,there's a solitary BT voter who's been getting it in the neck,I've told the YES voters that he's entitled tae his opinion like everyone else,fair doos tae him.

Originally Posted by Stephen

Yes men really don't listen do they? You've been told a few times. Ow the the pound won't be kept and that Scotland will have different taxes and rates.

Scotland would be a separate Country so they could require border checks to enter England Ireland and Wales.

Also don't be silly. Everything needs a plan B. Fat Alex doesn't even have a proper plan A.

Stephen,seriously,the pound WILL be kept as our currancy,border checks,you cannot be serious,without being cheeky,i'm beginning tae think you are out of your depth on this subject.

---------- Post added at 21:43 ---------- Previous post was at 21:42 ----------

Originally Posted by Osem

Jimi's just articulated the SNP's new referendum slogan:

"Plan B? We haven't got a Plan A!"

Sticks and stones may break my bones but whips n chains excite me.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Jimi

Stephen,seriously,the pound WILL be kept as our currancy

Except the SNP plan involves Scotland being part of the EU, being a new EU member involves accepting the Euro. Forgetting for a second that even the most optimistic fiscal outlook for iScotland would make it in-illegible for euro membership why would they accept an opt out?

Of course if Salmond actually has any hard and fast evidence that this would happen he could publish it.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Jimi

Stephen,seriously,the pound WILL be kept as our currancy,border checks,you cannot be serious,without being cheeky,i'm beginning tae think you are out of your depth on this subject

I'm sorry but what????? So despite proof and confirmation from the Bank of England, Westminster and other sources that they WILL NOT enter into a currency union with an IScotland, you still think there will be? I fail to understand your logic and also claims that I am out of my depth. Unlike you I am 100% Scottish and fully understand.

As for the border checks, they could happen.

Honestly you just sound like Salmond, refusing to accept the facts and also failing to back up your claims with facts or even a plan B.

---------- Post added at 22:23 ---------- Previous post was at 22:22 ----------

Originally Posted by Derek

Except the SNP plan involves Scotland being part of the EU, being a new EU member involves accepting the Euro. Forgetting for a second that even the most optimistic fiscal outlook for iScotland would make it in-illegible for euro membership why would they accept an opt out?

Of course if Salmond actually has any hard and fast evidence that this would happen he could publish it.

This!!

[Jimi]

Btw Stephen,here's a few more funny stories which eminated from down south,I give you Andy Burnham with the hilarious story that Scots will drive on the opposite side of the road.
The utterly barmy Lord Fraser with this...
Mr Fraser insisted that if the Scottish people voted in favour of Scottish independence, the country would be left undefended. He expressed his fear that enemies of the rump-UK would then be able to use Scotland as a base for launching air strikes, adding: "If that were to happen what alternative would England have but to come and bomb the hell out of Glasgow airport and Edinburgh airport."

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politi...ports.17005697
Then we have loony George Galloway coming out with If Scotland had been an independent country in the 1930s we would all be speaking German.

Up next we have the latest attempt from BT,no,its not April 1st.


Conveniently ommiting the wages earned in those countries compared tae ours.

Goodnight.

---------- Post added at 22:31 ---------- Previous post was at 22:28 ----------

Originally Posted by Derek

Except the SNP plan involves Scotland being part of the EU, being a new EU member involves accepting the Euro. Forgetting for a second that even the most optimistic fiscal outlook for iScotland would make it in-illegible for euro membership why would they accept an opt out?

Of course if Salmond actually has any hard and fast evidence that this would happen he could publish it.

The Little Englanders are more than welcome tae move out of the EU,that's their prerogative,me,I'd rather stay in it despite the amount of money that has been stolen but is it any worse than what England has stolen from Scotland,I don't think so.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Jimi

The Little Englanders are more than welcome tae move out of the EU,that's their prerogative,me,I'd rather stay in it despite the amount of money that has been stolen but is it any worse than what England has stolen from Scotland,I don't think so.

So you want to leave the UK but yet remain in the EU? Thats just plain daft. especially as an IScotland wouldn't be allowed to join the EU.

Also those stories yet again do not have any stories or evidence to back up or confirm any of the Yes campaigns so called 'plans' all you are doing is trying to shift the focus away from the fact that there are no actual plans.

[Jimi]

Originally Posted by Stephen

[/COLOR]I'm sorry but what????? So despite proof and confirmation from the Bank of England, Westminster and other sources that they WILL NOT enter into a currency union with an IScotland, you still think there will be? I fail to understand your logic and also claims that I am out of my depth. Unlike you I am 100% Scottish and fully understand.

As for the border checks, they could happen.

Honestly you just sound like Salmond, refusing to accept the facts and also failing to back up your claims with facts or even a plan B.

---------- Post added at 22:23 ---------- Previous post was at 22:22 ----------


This!!

Stephen,forget what Alistair Carmichael said,Scotland will be like a shareholder once we gain Independence.
Btw,

---------- Post added at 22:41 ---------- Previous post was at 22:38 ----------

Originally Posted by Stephen

So you want to leave the UK but yet remain in the EU? Thats just plain daft. especially as an IScotland wouldn't be allowed to join the EU.

Also those stories yet again do not have any stories or evidence to back up or confirm any of the Yes campaigns so called 'plans' all you are doing is trying to shift the focus away from the fact that there are no actual plans.

Scotland has every right to rejoin the EU,this will happen once we break free,sadly if we are still stuck with the rest of the UK then we'll need tae accept it.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Jimi

Stephen,forget what Alistair Carmichael said,Scotland will be like a shareholder once we gain Independence.
Btw,

---------- Post added at 22:41 ---------- Previous post was at 22:38 ----------


Scotland has every right to rejoin the EU,this will happen once we break free,sadly if we are still stuck with the rest of the UK then we'll need tae accept it.

So it will will it?

Scotsman

But Mr Barroso suggested for the first time yesterday that a newly independent nation may not even be allowed into the EU if it applied as a new member.


The EC president said: “In case there is a new country, a new state, coming out of a current member state, it will have to apply and the application and the accession to the European Union will have to be approved by all the other member states of the European Union.”


He added: “I don’t want to interfere on your referendum here, your democratic discussion here, but of course it will be extremely difficult to get the approval of all the other member states to have a new member coming from one member state.
“We have seen Spain has been opposing even the recognition of Kosovo, for instance.



“So it is to some extent a similar case because it’s a new country and so I believe it’s going to be extremely difficult, if not impossible, a new member state coming out of one of our countries getting the agreement of the others.”


The intervention came after Chancellor George Osborne insisted last week that Mr Salmond’s plan for an independent Scotland to share the pound with the remainder of the UK would “not work” and “was not going to happen”.

Telegraph

There are basically six steps (by my rough categorisation). Salmond’s biggest problem is that for half of these, each of the 28 EU states, including rUK and Spain, has a veto:
Step 1 – Scotland applies to join the EU: Under EU law, it would have to be an independent country to apply.
Step 2 – The European Commission “screens” Scottish law to see if the country is compatible with EU membership – this won’t be an issue.
Step 3 – EU governments decide whether to approve Scotland’s EU application. All EU states have a veto.
Step 4 – The EU and Scotland begin negotiations over individual EU policy areas. There are now 35 so-called “accession chapters” covering everything from the euro to employment law to the EU budget. Each country has a veto over the decision to both open and then to close every single chapter – ask Turkey how easy that has proven (read: Cyprus and France). It’s in these talks that Salmond would need to deliver on his pledge to get an opt-out from the euro, as well as replicating the UK’s special deals on the EU budget, crime and immigration and passport controls.
Step 5 – When the 35th chapter is agreed, the Accession Treaty with the Scottish terms of entry is drafted.
Step 6 – This Treaty must then be ratified by the Parliaments of each EU country and the European Parliament. If one says no, the deal falls.
Iceland officially applied to the EU in June 2009. In 2013, when the bid was dropped, it had completed about a third of the negotiations. So if the letter of the law is followed, Scotland might join the EU just before Serbia, several years from now.

So unless all member states agree, then Scotland wouldn't be joining the EU.

Oh and part of that also confirms that there may well be Border checks.

Facts, there are rather interesting.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Jimi

Scotland has every right to rejoin the EU,this will happen once we break free,sadly if we are still stuck with the rest of the UK then we'll need tae accept it.

It would have every right to APPLY to join the EU. And as a new member it would have to accept the Euro (Which would mean BIG cuts in spending to get within deficit limits), Schengen and numerous other impositions that wold leave Scotland nowhere near independent as I would think of it.

So really you want to go from a union that's lasted hundreds of years, where Scotland has arguably a disproportionate voice, to one that's a decade or so old and would have Scotland as a VERY junior member?

[techguyone]

Strikes me very much of a 'be careful what you wish for - you might just get it'

Thing is, once you've got it, you may very well not want it...

Me? I'm just reaching for the popcorn and watching with humour, it's better than the telly!