TiVo

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by Andy C

When did the slightly different form appear at http://tivo.virginmedia.com/tivoupgrade/interest

I only knew about this one https://tivo.virginmedia.com/public/interest ?

Not seen that page before, perhaps its just appeared.

Oh and since my post over on the tivo forum, you may have noticed my rant here...

I've just decided to take a hard line against these upfront charges. So watch this space, I'll report back if I have any luck. Plus, please do go and speak to that fellow over on chetnet too and see what he says. I don't belong to that forum anymore so can't ask him. Oh hang on, he posts here too.

[Lew]

Originally Posted by Andy C

When did the slightly different form appear at http://tivo.virginmedia.com/tivoupgrade/interest

I only knew about this one https://tivo.virginmedia.com/public/interest ?

I think the first one is the one for S1 TiVo users.

[davidthornton]

Originally Posted by Joedm45

Putting it on the bill should be the only option as Cozzy says. Who in their right mind would give CC details to someone who phoned them

Me? At worst, if I am defrauded the credit card company refunds me and cancels the card. No loss to me.

---------- Post added at 01:15 ---------- Previous post was at 01:09 ----------

Originally Posted by Cozzy

having been a victim of identity theif there is no way i will ever give card details to some stranger over the phone .. just never gonna happen so VM get your act together and let us pay via our monthly bill.

When Virgin Media phone you they already have all of your details. They know what package you are on and are happy to go into the specific details. When you pay the upfront charge on your CC they don't ask for your address again (why would they, as they already have it). If, at worst, that somehow got into the wrong hands then your CC company refunds you and you get a new card. I've had one of my cards cloned loads of times and that is exactly what happens.

---------- Post added at 01:40 ---------- Previous post was at 01:15 ----------

Originally Posted by Horizon

Disagree.

But you own that box.

So? Why would you want to own any Sky box without an active Sky subscription? What use is it really, these days, when basic Freesat boxes are next to nothing or built into the TV.

The monthly fee we pay VM is made up of three parts:

a. Subscription fees for tv, broadband and/or telephone services.
b. Rental fees for equipment.
c. A fee to connect to VM's network - VM call it telephone line rental.

Because we pay rental fees for equipment, we can get the equipment fixed/replaced if it breaks. It's not free to fix/replace equipment as many people believe, we pay for it every month.

So with Virgin Media, given the equipment repairs are included in what you pay per month you are actually better off with them than with Sky (where equipment repairs are not included in the monthly subscription)

I won't go into V+ as that's old news, but with Tivo, VM propose and I repeat propose, as we don't know all the charges yet, to charge us the following:

1. Our usual monthly fees as outlined above.
2. An additionally monthly charge of £3 to use the service.
3. An upfront charge of one kind or another.

It costs your monthly subscription (minimum XL TV), £149 upwards one off charge per box, depending on your past relationship with Virgin Media and/or TiVo, and £3p/m per TiVo box.

VM propose to charge an upfront fee (item 3) for a box that VM still owns. I'm already paying monthly rental equipment fees (item 1) as outlined above, so what is the upfront fee for?

The one off charge per piece of equipment goes someway to offset the cost of the production of that equipment. Sky also charged these kind of prices at launch, and new Sky HD+ boxes cost £180 or more. The fact that you own the Sky box at the start, and you never own the Virgin Media box, is irrelevant. However if my original Thomson Sky+ HD box finally goes bang (and I think it might soon), Sky won't give me a replacement Sky+ HD box for free (despite the fact that I paid £299 for it when it came out). Virgin Media will always replace any box I have purchased, like for like.

Then to add insult to injury, VM propose to charge an additional £3 per month (item 2) to use the service even though I am already paying them to use their cable tv service (item 1). I'm already paying monthly service charges (item 1), so what the hell is the £3 for. What do VM do to earn that £3? Absolutely nothing, of course!!

Service charge for using the extra services that are available via TiVo boxes.

But hey I'm sure many will say that's fair, ok. But what if you leave VM? You've paid them a non-refundable upfront fee to purchase a box which you do not own on top of normal monthly rental charges and an additional £3 per month surcharge.

Well you'd factor the one off cost of the equipment against how many months you think you'll likely stick with Virgin Media. So if you depreciate it over 18 months (which is the length of the contract Virgin Media told me that you automatically renew for if you take out TiVo), it's less than £10 per month (as a TiVo S1 owner) or about £10 a month otherwise. The same applies to those, myself included, who took out a Sky HD+ box when that was launched. That box was £299upfront, but depreciate it over 12 months which is the minimum term of a Sky contract.

[snip]

I have waited for something like tivo on cable for 10 years. V+ was poor and I never bothered with it. If it had been 10 years ago, perhaps I might have been more relaxed about the charges. But I watch my pennies now and they are pennies and I am not putting up with this nonsense. VM are saying bend over and take it, no I won't!

They're saying nothing of the sort. They are only offering TiVo to XL TV customers and are pitching it as a high end product which isn't for everyone. You don't have to partake as it's optional, but if you want to then it costs as above. If you cannot afford it, I'm sorry but wait until you can. I had a S1 TiVo back in 2001 and have waited for the day when TiVo finally came back to the UK. Therefore I've put down for three TiVo boxes to replace my three V+ boxes but I'd budgeted to do this ever since I heard about TiVo coming to Virgin Media early in 2010, so had already put money aside for this, and I think the costs seem fair in comparison to those of Sky+ HD. As a TiVo S1 owner I have also saved three lots of install fees by doing this in one go, which is £120.

---------- Post added at 01:51 ---------- Previous post was at 01:40 ----------

Originally Posted by Joedm45

I'm sure I once saw something on the VM website that if you pay a lump sum, £200 rings a bell, then they will remove the monthly V+ charge of £10. However this may have been before it was free on TV XL. I've had a quick look but there's a high chance that web page no longer exists.

From memory, the V+ box was originally £10 a month unless you paid a lump sum of something between £150 and £200 for that fee to be removed. I cannot remember if there was a purchase price for the box as well.

In late 2007, I think, V+ boxes became half price, at £75 one off charge which was supposed to be for first time V+ customers only. Existing V+ customers, who wanted additional boxes, were supposed to pay £150 per additional box and then £5 per month per box for the V+ service. However many existing customers managed to get additional boxes for £75 per box (myself included). At the time, the V+ box was the only Virgin Media box which supported HD, so if you wanted HD output you had to have it. The new V HD box came later.

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by Cozzy

having been a victim of identity theif there is no way i will ever give card details to some stranger over the phone .. just never gonna happen so VM get your act together and let us pay via our monthly bill.

Many many companies ask for card details over the phone and the agents are fully trained in taking payments, their footprints are all over the account as well so the is no way an agent is going to try and defraud you unless they want to take some quality time in a jail cell and have problems in the future getting a job or credit.

Your card details are worth a lot less than their job.

[howardmicks]

Originally Posted by No_Socks

Install date booked: 16th Feb

£149 for box

free installation

£3 extra per month on XL TV package

Rip off price for the box and totall disgrace to charge £ 3 extra,I will certainly be passing on that foe a while.Trouble is whilst people are daft enough to pay it they will charge it

[No_Socks]

Originally Posted by PLB

Free installation?
Cool.
How did you manage that as I understood it to be £49.00?

They said that because I was special the installation fees was waived - and just for a minute I thought I was (right up to the moment he remembered to tell me that it was going to cost me another £3pm)!!!

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by howardmicks

Rip off price for the box and totall disgrace to charge £ 3 extra,I will certainly be passing on that foe a while.Trouble is whilst people are daft enough to pay it they will charge it

If you want the latest product then you have to pay the price.

[whizzard]

Its really quite simple. The prices are what they are. That isn't going to change any time soon, so can either accept and take a TiVo early doors, or hang on for months in the hop that price will drop.

[Felim_Doyle]

Originally Posted by spligosh

Hey! Didn't I hear earlier in the year that Virgin was going to get Tivo by Christmas. Aren't they leaving it a little late with the advertising? Or is it Christmas 2011?

Three months and 1500 posts later we are still speculating on and misquoting launch dates, feature lists, remote device support etc.

---------- Post added at 08:32 ---------- Previous post was at 08:01 ----------

Twenty years earlier ...

Originally Posted by Someone with poor judgement

I have pre-registered my interest in the soon to be launched Ford Mondeo and had a look at the specs. for the Ford Contour on the US website. Apparently they're going to be left-hand drive and have air-conditioning as standard. I like the idea of having AC but the LHD will take some getting used to. The guy who washes the cars at my local Ford dealership, and he should know, says that the Ministry of Transport will soon be announcing that the UK is to start driving on the right from next year. That should make using the Mondeo easier but won't they have to convert a lot of motorway junctions?

Authoritative debate on the roll-out of motorway junction 'upgrades' ensues ...

Although the Ford Mondeo* and Ford Contour* share the same basic functionality they have been designed and built separately and direct comparisons between the two and suggestions as to what features each might support should be avoided.

*For Ford, read TiVo, for Mondeo read UK Virgin Media variant, for Contour read US Première variant.

<OffTopic>
Notice how the Ford Mondeo was designed and named to be a "one world, one car" concept except, of course, in the US where it was physically different, sharing only a few external components (windscreen, front windows, front mirrors and door handles) with its European counterpart, and marketed as the Ford Contour and Mercury Mystique.
</OffTopic>

[Perfect Choice]

I actually think the Tivo price is a good deal, Sky charge £200 for their 1TB DVR and you have to pay for any repairs. Much prefer the VM approach with its lifetime warranty in effect included.

This is latest technology and with new features(1TB, Internet based apps, intuitive UI), you are not forced to buy it and quite happily access XL TV and catch-up, etc using existing V+/VHD boxes if you want.

That £3 extra per month by the way covers specific extra charges to Tivo (or that is what I’ve read on here) so is a justified add-on and I expect will cover extra features like the Internet/application based services for example. If you don’t want to pay it then just stay with an existing DVR box an you can happily watch XL TV without the extra fee.

As regards the £149 plus £40 install fee, well VM are not a charity and they have costs to recover as well, the Tivo box will clearly have a cost and also they will have to account for a percentage failure rate to cover the “free” repair service (nothing is free really, it is just where you decide to account for them).

VM could have easily said Tivo costs nothing but the costs do not disappear and would have to result in a general wholesale increase in prices across all TV services say or VM lose profits and eventually go bust!

I’m sure subscribers would be complaining about new services they are not using if new costs were added to general rates, so quite right that Tivo users pay for their new services and the infrastructure (the box + support) required, especially in these early stages.

The price will come down eventually, but if you find the launch price too high in current circumstances, then just keep your current box and keep watching XL TV or even less (L/M) where you still have access to a smaller set of HD channels at least without having to pay £10 a month more.

[clinteastman]

I hope I get a call/install soon as my V+ has decided only to play half of each recording, not very useful!

[Digital Fanatic]

It's also worth remembering that TiVo in the US is an extra $20 a month! £3 for all the "TiVoness" is a bargain, but as usual the moaners come out! lol

[Perfect Choice]

Just shows you how good the deal is if you want the extra Tivo features.

[Digital Fanatic]

Originally Posted by Perfect Choice

Just shows you how good the deal is if you want the extra Tivo features.

indeed.

[pauldavies83]

Originally Posted by Digital Fanatic

It's also worth remembering that TiVo in the US is an extra $20 a month! £3 for all the "TiVoness" is a bargain, but as usual the moaners come out! lol

If you only pay $99 for the box, true

If you pay $299 (£185) for the box (which is your box, not rented and is still cheaper than VM after installation) the fee is $12.99 (£8) per month. Or you can pay the lifetime fee of $399 (£250) and pay no monthly fee

But this is in a country where paying additional for PVR services is the norm - we left that behind some time ago in this country when Sky and Virgin included them in packages and convinced people they were "free"