Anti-gay adverts pulled from bus campaign by Boris Johnson
13-04-2012, 13:39
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#46
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laeva recumbens anguis
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Re: Anti-gay adverts pulled from bus campaign by Boris Johnson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
Homosexuality is treated the way the Bible says it should be treated - it really is as simple as that. The two issues are never given equivalence in scripture.
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Sorry, Chris, but that sounds like an "it is what it is" answer - the old "I am right because I am right".
The Bible was written (and interpreted) in the mores and culture of the time (slavery, dietary, treatment of women, tribal warfare, etc) - the world has moved on in its understanding of why things are, or do not need to be (dietary re diseases and worms in food, slavery replaced by automation, treatment of women by treating them (mostly) as equals) - why should other things be any different, such as how we treat homosexuals?
Why is it some scripture is, excuse the phrase, gospel, but other parts aren't?
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13-04-2012, 13:42
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#47
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Re: Anti-gay adverts pulled from bus campaign by Boris Johnson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
Why is it some scripture is, excuse the phrase, gospel, but other parts aren't?
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Because it all depends on who you're asking. or who's telling you the answer.
it's a bit like asking the Tesco's lady why a certain offer isn't right because the other Tesco's lady said it was. only one of them is right. it's just that the other one was wrong.
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13-04-2012, 13:47
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#48
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Re: Anti-gay adverts pulled from bus campaign by Boris Johnson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
Sorry, Chris, but that sounds like an "it is what it is" answer - the old "I am right because I am right".
The Bible was written (and interpreted) in the mores and culture of the time (slavery, dietary, treatment of women, tribal warfare, etc) - the world has moved on in its understanding of why things are, or do not need to be (dietary re diseases and worms in food, slavery replaced by automation, treatment of women by treating them (mostly) as equals) - why should other things be any different, such as how we treat homosexuals?
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If I could attempt to answer for Chris - and I could be wrong in his thinking - but my interpretation is that homosexuality is NOT against God's law.
What is against God's law is sex outside the control of marriage. The bible (rightly or wrongly, no comment from me) treats sexually active gays the same as adulterers. Nobody seems to be campaigning for 'the church' to change its views on adulterers, but they do regarding gays.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
Why is it some scripture is, excuse the phrase, gospel, but other parts aren't?
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In my view - it's all about reading it in context.
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13-04-2012, 13:53
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#49
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Re: Anti-gay adverts pulled from bus campaign by Boris Johnson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ
<snip> Nobody seems to be campaigning for 'the church' to change its views on adulterers, but they do regarding gays.
<snip>
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I don't recall religious groups claiming to be able to/want to 'cure' adulterers either? The issue is that people take exception to is the suggestion that homosexuality is some sort of disease that can be cured.
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13-04-2012, 13:59
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#50
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Re: Anti-gay adverts pulled from bus campaign by Boris Johnson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ
Nobody seems to be campaigning for 'the church' to change its views on adulterers, but they do regarding gays.
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In a round about kind of way they did when they started allowing divorced couples to remarry in a church .I know that dicorce does not always equal adultery but quite a lot of the time it does
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13-04-2012, 14:06
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#51
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Re: Anti-gay adverts pulled from bus campaign by Boris Johnson
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf
I don't recall religious groups claiming to be able to/want to 'cure' adulterers either?
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It is done in a different way - marriage counselling etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh
In a round about kind of way they did when they started allowing divorced couples to remarry in a church.
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Very few (if any) churches I know of will allow that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh
I know that dicorce does not always equal adultery but quite a lot of the time it does
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The bible teaches that if a couple are joined before God, the only way either can remarry is if the spouse dies.
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13-04-2012, 14:07
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#52
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Re: Anti-gay adverts pulled from bus campaign by Boris Johnson
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf
I don't recall religious groups claiming to be able to/want to 'cure' adulterers either? The issue is that people take exception to is the suggestion that homosexuality is some sort of disease that can be cured.
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And I suppose the fact that they say it's against what some see as a figment of their imagination (God) and can be cured by said (God)
it really is interesting though.
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13-04-2012, 14:09
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#53
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Re: Anti-gay adverts pulled from bus campaign by Boris Johnson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ
Very few (if any) churches I know of will allow that.
The bible teaches that if a couple are joined before God, the only way either can remarry is if the spouse dies.
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I got married in church just before christmas and the choice of churches was not very limited either. While my ex did commit adultery she is not dead..... yet.
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13-04-2012, 14:10
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#54
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Re: Anti-gay adverts pulled from bus campaign by Boris Johnson
Quote:
Originally Posted by dilligaf1701
I got married in church just before christmas and the choice of churches was not very limited either. While my ex did commit adultery she is not dead..... yet.
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Did the vicar know?
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13-04-2012, 14:11
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#55
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Re: Anti-gay adverts pulled from bus campaign by Boris Johnson
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Originally Posted by Gary L
Did the vicar know?
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Of course the vicar knew. I had to provide the divorce paperwork. And it's on the marriage certificate.
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13-04-2012, 14:12
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#56
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Re: Anti-gay adverts pulled from bus campaign by Boris Johnson
I've not said it doesn't happen....
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13-04-2012, 14:13
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#57
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Re: Anti-gay adverts pulled from bus campaign by Boris Johnson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ
I've not said it doesn't happen....
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No you said Very few (if any)
Which is not my experience at all.
edit - mind you the ex DID find it very hard to find a church that would marry her because SHE was the one who committed adultery and wanted to marry him.
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13-04-2012, 14:18
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#58
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Re: Anti-gay adverts pulled from bus campaign by Boris Johnson
Quote:
Originally Posted by dilligaf1701
No you said Very few (if any)
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No, I said very few (if any) that I know of
Big difference
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13-04-2012, 14:19
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#59
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Re: Anti-gay adverts pulled from bus campaign by Boris Johnson
...and now you know more that do
My vicar told me I could remarry as I didn't break the sacrament she did.
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13-04-2012, 14:19
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#60
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Trollsplatter
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Re: Anti-gay adverts pulled from bus campaign by Boris Johnson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
Sorry, Chris, but that sounds like an "it is what it is" answer - the old "I am right because I am right".
The Bible was written (and interpreted) in the mores and culture of the time (slavery, dietary, treatment of women, tribal warfare, etc) - the world has moved on in its understanding of why things are, or do not need to be (dietary re diseases and worms in food, slavery replaced by automation, treatment of women by treating them (mostly) as equals) - why should other things be any different, such as how we treat homosexuals?
Why is it some scripture is, excuse the phrase, gospel, but other parts aren't?
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Hugh, you're still assigning an equivalence to things that the Bible does not assign.
In the Old Testament the Bible sets down rules for ancient Israel governing the master/slave relationship. In the New Testament it sets down that when a master and slave become Christians, this should energise and inform their relationship without there being any compulsion to end it.*
In the Old Testament the Bible sets out very clearly that God finds homosexual practice abhorrent and it sets down rules for ancient Israel governing the judicial process to be used when dealing with it. In the New Testament it re-states the morally abhorrent status of homosexual activity and sets out warnings as to how God will deal with those involved in it.
You make a good point about the context in which the Bible was written, however it does not follow that the observation therefore allows the modern reader to re-interpret at will. The context in which the words were written aids understanding as to why they were written but also restricts the possible interpretations that can be put on them.
All of scripture is Gospel (God-speak) ... which is why as a Christian I take the Bible very seriously and prefer to promote the idea that society should be shaped by the Bible and not vice-versa.
* The key difficulty here is that 'slavery' is a heavily loaded term, and what was eventually abolished in 1833 was something quite different than the relationship advocated between masters and slaves in either the old or the new testaments. But here lies some very serious topic drift.
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