TiVo : Medium term strategy for virgin media

[OLD BOY]

It has certainly been a roller coaster recently with all the new channels that have been added by Virgin Media, with the latest additions of BT Sport/ESPN (including HD and for no extra charge in XL) being the highlight so far. With a second major addition expected in September with Sky Atlantic and other missing Sky channels, this will pretty well conclude the drive to bring our platform up to a suitable standard for 2013.

But where are VM going after they have completed this phase of TV development? What can we expect to happen next, and when?

Bomber AF has hinted at a complete change in the way we access TV programmes in the future, and my guess is that we will be able to access any programme we want from the cloud. As people get more and more used to watching programmes outside the programme controller's schedule, this is the inevitable way to go. Linear channels will decline in terms of popularity and in a decade or so, there may well be far more people accessing their programmes from lists (whether from recordings, VOD or internet streaming).

I believe that we are moving towards a position where all programmes ever made in the past that have survived the clumsy destruction policies that applied in the 1960s ,70s and 80s will be available from the cloud. The big question will revolve around how the pricing structures will work.

I would imagine that there will be opportunities to watch on a pay per view basis and on subscriptions arranged through the likes of Virgin Media and other operators, such as Netflix, Sky and directly with studios. Subscriptions might allow the viewer to access a certain amount of material over a period of a month. There may be additional pay or content limited restrictions for the expensive stuff.

What this will do is signal the end of exclusive deals such as Sky's contract with HBO and enable us all to access the content we want legally. The presence of advertisements within programmes will decline as more money is collected directly through subscriptions, although we can still expect advertisements at the beginning of programmes.

Of course, the TIVO box will be the perfect medium for bringing all of this content to us, and the need for recordings might reduce as a result. But then again, maybe not. Some of us might want to trawl through the content periodically and then upload programmes onto our recorders to view at a later date. Perhaps we could record our own schedules. Sounds like fun!

Although I do think that this is the way we are going, I am not sure how long it will take for our current means of viewing to change. Some people will always be happy to have their viewing decided for them and sit through frequent and long periods of interruptions from advertisements. However, for most in this new digital age, this time wasting, mind numbing experience has become simply unacceptable.

I do think from what we have heard from the Liberty guys that Virgin Media will be leading the way with this approach, in which case, the excitement we have seen from Media Boy's 'Coming Soon' thread will be tame in comparison.

I would be interested to hear your views on how you see things developing, particularly those of you who are well versed in the technology and all things media.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

It has certainly been a roller coaster recently with all the new channels that have been added by Virgin Media, with the latest additions of BT Sport/ESPN (including HD and for no extra charge in XL) being the highlight so far. With a second major addition expected in September with Sky Atlantic and other missing Sky channels, this will pretty well conclude the drive to bring our platform up to a suitable standard for 2013.

But where are VM going after they have completed this phase of TV development? What can we expect to happen next, and when?

Bomber AF has hinted at a complete change in the way we access TV programmes in the future, and my guess is that we will be able to access any programme we want from the cloud. As people get more and more used to watching programmes outside the programme controller's schedule, this is the inevitable way to go. Linear channels will decline in terms of popularity and in a decade or so, there may well be far more people accessing their programmes from lists (whether from recordings, VOD or internet streaming).

I believe that we are moving towards a position where all programmes ever made in the past that have survived the clumsy destruction policies that applied in the 1960s ,70s and 80s will be available from the cloud. The big question will revolve around how the pricing structures will work.

I would imagine that there will be opportunities to watch on a pay per view basis and on subscriptions arranged through the likes of Virgin Media and other operators, such as Netflix, Sky and directly with studios. Subscriptions might allow the viewer to access a certain amount of material over a period of a month. There may be additional pay or content limited restrictions for the expensive stuff.
What this will do is signal the end of exclusive deals such as Sky's contract with HBO and enable us all to access the content we want legally. The presence of advertisements within programmes will decline as more money is collected directly through subscriptions, although we can still expect advertisements at the beginning of programmes.

Of course, the TIVO box will be the perfect medium for bringing all of this content to us, and the need for recordings might reduce as a result. But then again, maybe not. Some of us might want to trawl through the content periodically and then upload programmes onto our recorders to view at a later date. Perhaps we could record our own schedules. Sounds like fun!

Although I do think that this is the way we are going, I am not sure how long it will take for our current means of viewing to change. Some people will always be happy to have their viewing decided for them and sit through frequent and long periods of interruptions from advertisements. However, for most in this new digital age, this time wasting, mind numbing experience has become simply unacceptable.

I do think from what we have heard from the Liberty guys that Virgin Media will be leading the way with this approach, in which case, the excitement we have seen from Media Boy's 'Coming Soon' thread will be tame in comparison.

I would be interested to hear your views on how you see things developing, particularly those of you who are well versed in the technology and all things media.

And my, are things starting to happen! The anticipated Netflix addition for the TIVOs is now officially just around the corner (later this year) - and it's by subscription rather than pay per view! Brilliant!

Only a matter of time now before we can ditch the exorbitant subscription payments to Sky Movies. Just need to wait for the exclusivity deals to expire.

[passingbat]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Only a matter of time now before we can ditch the exorbitant subscription payments to Sky Movies. Just need to wait for the exclusivity deals to expire.

To be fair, you can't expect a lot of current movies on Netflix for 6 quid a month. Part of the reason for the extra cost of Sky movies is because they have more of the recent films. Sky Movies and Netflix serve different requirements and I see no reason why they can't co exist.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by passingbat

To be fair, you can't expect a lot of current movies on Netflix for 6 quid a month. Part of the reason for the extra cost of Sky movies is because they have more of the recent films. Sky Movies and Netflix serve different requirements and I see no reason why they can't co exist.

I certainly won't be ditching my Sky Movies subscription just yet! Even allowing for an increased subscription for Netflix as they acquire a bigger library, it is still bound to be much better value that the Sky subscriptions, which are overinflated, in my opinion. To access series like 'Breaking Bad' is fantastic! Can't wait for Netflix to arrive at last.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...UK-pay-TV.html

[passingbat]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I certainly won't be ditching my Sky Movies subscription just yet! Even allowing for an increased subscription for Netflix as they acquire a bigger library, it is still bound to be much better value that the Sky subscriptions, which are overinflated, in my opinion. To access series like 'Breaking Bad' is fantastic! Can't wait for Netflix to arrive at last.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...UK-pay-TV.html

Netflix is way better value in my view, but I'm not a person who is desperate to see the latest movies at the price Sky want to charge. But for others it will be worth the cost. I actually got a 6 month subscription to Sky movies via Now TV for a total of £15; so £2.50 a month. For that price, for me, it was worth it, but I will cancel at the end of the six months.

[OLD BOY]

I am hoping that the Netflix deal is the first big step towards getting access to a world full of programmes in the future.

Netflix itself will get better as they buy up rights to stream programmes in the UK and eventually it will look like the US version.

In five years' time I think the scene will be drastically changed and we will have a huge choice of material available to us from a range of different sources.

This is the beginning of the end for linear TV, which I believe will start to contract in the not so distant future. Sky Atlantic won't matter any more!

(Did I just say that??)

[denphone]

Originally Posted by passingbat

To be fair, you can't expect a lot of current movies on Netflix for 6 quid a month. Part of the reason for the extra cost of Sky movies is because they have more of the recent films. Sky Movies and Netflix serve different requirements and I see no reason why they can't co exist.

Indeed l quite agree PB.

[OLD BOY]

The thing is, if Netflix make an offer to the studios that is at the right price, but not exclusive, this will provide the studios with the ability to generate more money than doing an exclusive deal with Sky.

Eventually, prices will come down as Sky finally concedes that exclusivity is no longer the name of the game.

Netflix may not always be available at current prices, but one thing is for sure. They will never charge as much as Sky, and the downward pressure on prices will eventually force Sky to review their pricing structure as well. If they don't, they will simply lose customers, and therefore the income to pay for these expensive deals.

Only good can come of this.

[muppetman11]

Why would Netflix pay the studios the right money (your words) but not want exclusivity ? That would make no sense Hence why they wouldn't do it. You do know that NetFlix has exclusive deals in nearly every country it operates don't you ?

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by muppetman11

Why would Netflix pay the studios the right money (your words) but not want exclusivity ? That would make no sense Hence why they wouldn't do it. You do know that NetFlix has exclusive deals in nearly every country it operates don't you ?

But this just ends in an upward spiral on prices. Each platform tries to outbid the other. If a decent price is put in with no exclusivity, this breaks the spiral and enables providers to offer their content more cheaply. I think it's just a matter of time.

Prices can't keep going up like this. Football fans are already complaining that they can't afford the ever increasing prices. A number of unexclusive deals will be likely to bring in more money than one exclusive deal, don't you think?

[muppetman11]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

But this just ends in an upward spiral on prices. Each platform tries to outbid the other. If a decent price is put in with no exclusivity, this breaks the spiral and enables providers to offer their content more cheaply. I think it's just a matter of time.

Prices can't keep going up like this. Football fans are already complaining that they can't afford the ever increasing prices. A number of unexclusive deals will be likely to bring in more money than one exclusive deal, don't you think?

My point still stands why would any movie service pay a decent price for first run rights if the studios movies were available on numerous movie services , a system like that would never work. Like it or not exclusivity is here to stay , if people feel a certain price is too much the simple answer is don't pay it , if enough cancel a particular service the provider is then forced to review its pricing and packages.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by muppetman11

My point still stands why would any movie service pay a decent price for first run rights if the studios movies were available on numerous movie services , a system like that would never work. Like it or not exclusivity is here to stay , if people feel a certain price is too much the simple answer is don't pay it , if enough cancel a particular service the provider is then forced to review its pricing and packages.

No it's not! Things change over time.

Let's say Sky currently pay £20m for an exclusivity deal. If an offer comes through at £12m for non exclusivity, the remaining £8m can be made up with other platforms. Increased competition will enable prices to fall as more sales of the programming are made, and we start a virtuous downward spiral of prices. Good old competition - that's how it's meant to work.

Studios will only agree to exclusivity deals if it pays them to do so. As more players come in, it will no longer be in their interests.

[muppetman11]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

No it's not! Things change over time.

Let's say Sky currently pay £20m for an exclusivity deal. If an offer comes through at £12m for non exclusivity, the remaining £8m can be made up with other platforms. Increased competition will enable prices to fall as more sales of the programming are made, and we start a virtuous downward spiral of prices. Good old competition - that's how it's meant to work.

Studios will only agree to exclusivity deals if it pays them to do so. As more players come in, it will no longer be in their interests.

If you say so

We'll have to agree to disagree , that scenario will never happen , a firm wouldn't pay good money if the content was available on numerous other services , the US market is far further down the line in the streaming market and yet exclusive deals are still the norm there.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by muppetman11

If you say so

Well I do, but I guess only time will prove one of us right!

[steveh]

Given that NBCUniversal own Picturebox and Sony Pictures / Walt Disney own Virgin Movies On Demand you would have thought they would be directly able to produce a more competitive offering themselves.