Tories plan to lower Benefits cap

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Hugh

No, it is suggesting that personal responsibility is a default - in an age of freely available contraception, repeatedly becoming pregnant without concern of the economic implications to yourself (and your family, and the wider community) is morally irresponsible. Somebody Else's Problem should not be a default position when it comes to the economics of having, and raising, children.

Sorry Hugh, but there is a very big difference between espousing "personal responsibility" as a default position (which, incidentally I happen to agree with) and espousing "contraception consistently" as an economic default.

---------- Post added at 19:42 ---------- Previous post was at 19:41 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

The same phrase could be applied to the proposed reduction in benefits......

Yes, it could indeed.

You're right, Mr A - I conflated "personal responsibility" with "contraception consistently".

Whilst one may be a (part-time) subset of the other, they are not the same thing.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

These are choices you and Mrs Pierre make. Others are free to make choices too - it's called democracy.

Yes, me and Mrs Pierre choose to work and therefore support those that choose not too.

And we therefore will be voting for the party that vows to reduce benefits for those that choose to spend someone else's money. That too is democracy.

I hope the Tories get in and I hope they keep on reducing benefits.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Yes, me and Mrs Pierre choose to work and therefore support those that choose not too. And we therefore will be voting for the party that vows to reduce benefits for those that choose to spend someone else's money. That too is democracy. I hope the Tories get in and I hope they keep on reducing benefits.

Bully for you, and Mrs Pierre too, obviously.

---------- Post added at 20:42 ---------- Previous post was at 20:40 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

You're right, Mr A - I conflated "personal responsibility" with "contraception consistently". Whilst one may be a (part-time) subset of the other, they are not the same thing.

No harm no foul, sir.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Bully for you, and Mrs Pierre too, obviously.

Not looking for any cheerleading.

Just "exercising the right" you know what I mean?

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Not looking for any cheerleading. Just "exercising the right" you know what I mean?

Absolutely, sir. Not cheerleading at all. Simply acknowledging your obviously clear understanding of the democratic process and wish to participate in / exercise same.

I admire your apparent confidence and ability to forecast that neither you, Mrs Pierre or either of your two lovely children, through absolutely no fault of your own, will ever find yourselves at some stage in the future having to look to the state for support only to find that it has been removed to sate the current ideological agenda to pursue a divisional austerity driven ideology which you seem only too keen to support.

Hooray! Pip, pip, etc.

[Jimmy-J]

'The best things in life are free'

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

The lower end of the wage spectrum isn't going to improve anytime soon since labour let in so many unskilled migrants and the conservatives aren't doing al that much about illegal immigration.
They could legislate to raise the minimum wage but if that gets set too high then employers will simply stop hiring

I remember reading that the Dutch have much lower unemployment and migrant workers than other European states because they pay a living wage rather than the bare minimum

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

I admire your apparent confidence and ability to forecast that neither you, Mrs Pierre or either of your two lovely children, through absolutely no fault of your own, will ever find yourselves at some stage in the future having to look to the state for support only to find that it has been removed to sate the current ideological agenda to pursue a divisional austerity driven ideology which you seem only too keen to support.

Hooray! Pip, pip, etc.

As usual, twist the argument and sacrifice the point on the alter of self edification.

I believe in a welfare safety net, as a child growing up in Liverpool in the 80's my family were dependant on it.

Assistance should be given to people to "help" them get back on their feet.

But I do not believe, as you obviously do, as you believe it is a democratic choice. To "choose" to live off the state. To "choose" not to work. To "choose" to never contribute to the economy but forever leech from it.

That's what I am against, I think I've been consistent with that.

I'm for a welfare system that assists people to get back to work, not a system that leads them and their families into a lack of ambition and generational unemployment such as the last Labour government purported.

[Taf]

I understand that school leavers not in work, training or education will be obliged to do "community work" for their dole (which will have some new name, thus they will not be classed as unemployed I bet).

I reckon this will slowly creep from the 21 years of age limit to include all ages not in work, training or education. And I am sure that many presently considered disabled will be forced into this group also.

It might produce a "strong work ethic", it might even result in some finding paid employment, but it will also create a huge army of "free" labour, especially for "cash-strapped" councils (who are already making many unemployed as they realise this "free" labour force is coming).

And the benefits cap will sink lower and lower......

[denphone]

Remember Taf "We are all in this together" according to Mr Cameron.

[richard s]

A free labour force! I doubt your rates will go down though.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Pierre

I believe in a welfare safety net, as a child growing up in Liverpool in the 80's my family were dependant on it. .

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Thanks for clearing that up.

No problem.

and that experience drove me. Even in during the early 80's during Thatchers Britain in Liverpool. There were jobs for teenagers.

I chose to find a job, not riot.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Pierre

I chose to find a job, not riot.

Democracy in action.