TalkTalk tracking you, phorm?

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Oh, it was for "effect" - I just thought he had a faulty shift key.......

It had effect, my grin widened.

[SadBanana]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

I see the meaning of the smiley was lost somewhat.

To answer the other point, as an application level network engineer [My Hero] I believe the use of DPI to be entirely appropriate under some circumstances and within certain constraints. [Snipped Sarcasm]

[Snipped Facile Antagonism]

This message posted via a TalkTalk connection at the holiday cottage we are presently at. All your packets are belong to Huawei.

[Snipped Questionable Stuff]

Mmmm yes and no. It is already used to record certain aspects of the user base as a whole, for example the web sites people visit can build demographics regarding the user base both as a whole and, in the case of LLU and cable networks, can be used to build more local statistics. These are trivially anonymised through discarding the source address once it's been identified as belonging to a particular group.

[An Interesting Opinion]

Other uses, Phorm for example, not so much. Where the line is drawn for me personally is insertion of content over the top of the requested content. When inspection becomes insertion is too much.

[Surely a Deliberate Misunderstanding From the Network Engineer. How Can That Be?]

Sigh

This message posted via a TalkTalk connection at the holiday cottage we are presently at. All your packets are belong to Huawei.

Not a issue as long as they just take the routing information and deliver as required. When they start sniffing inside and following then that becomes a problem.

Sorry to be on Topic. I may have missed some punctuation smilies...

:erm :

Help yourself.

New definition of "on Topic" I hadn't come across before - interpreting and truncating posts to support one's own viewpoint....

Interesting how you tried (and failed, imho) to mock (and defame with the "Deliberate Misunderstanding" jibe) the fact that Iggy, with his extensive professional, practical, and in-depth knowledge of telecomms networks and the supporting infrastructures, may actually have an informed, rather than prejudged, view on the technologies involved.

When facts fail to support one's view, innuendo and slanted comments prevail (or so I have seen on theNoDPI and other forums).

btw, your "shift" key still appears to be intermittently sticking after you press the "space" key....

[Ignitionnet]

I could respond in depth but a bottle of Maker's Mark requires my attention and Hugh has kindly summed up much of what I would say.

As a last thought I wasn't giving an 'opinion' about statistics and demographics gathering, it happens, I've helped configure it. It's entirely legal as it purely uses routing data, it's no more dubious than BT producing statistics on which area codes talk to which on their telco network.

Cheers!

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Hugh

SB, you appear to be confusing people challenging other's agenda with those having an agenda (imho) - but then, there does seem to be a lot of that on the NoDPI and other forums (the old "if you're not for us, you must be against us and allied with the "Forces of Evil"" line of thought).

Indeed. IIRC, in the massive Phorm thread, I was told I was pro Phorm (which I am definitely not) purely because I disagreed with the idea (the some members were actively pushing) of taking action against companies because they happen to be linked in some tenuous way to a company that is using Phorm.

There is a huge difference (imho) between rationally questioning companies/governments actions and the almost paranoid twisting of every facet that comes out to follow the pre-conceived "party line" - this, unfortunately, weakens any valid points that may arise.

Indeed, and the distinction is lost on many.

[SadBanana]

Originally Posted by Hugh

New definition of "on Topic" I hadn't come across before - interpreting and truncating posts to support one's own viewpoint....

Oh, sorry about that one. I did not realise that there was a requirement to deal extensively with people taking their egos out for a ride before getting back to the subject of TalkTalk using DPI to extract non-routing information from peoples communications in order to snout about in places they may have no right to be.

Interesting how you tried (and failed, imho) to mock (and defame with the "Deliberate Misunderstanding" jibe) the fact that Iggy, with his extensive professional, practical, and in-depth knowledge of telecomms networks and the supporting infrastructures, may actually have an informed, rather than prejudged, view on the technologies involved.

Well, gosh. Thanks for that. Maybe I misunderstood....

Other uses, Phorm for example, not so much. Where the line is drawn for me personally is insertion of content over the top of the requested content. When inspection becomes insertion is too much.

I had assumed that 'Iggy' was, for the purposes of self gratification, deliberately being slightly behind the curve and referring to Phorms past efforts where they were trying to replace others adverts with their own.

When facts fail to support one's view, innuendo and slanted comments prevail (or so I have seen on theNoDPI and other forums).

Also seems to happen here according to some sort of inverse cubed law.. I suppose this must be a forum as well. Given no facts it is quite hard to respond in kind.

btw, your "shift" key still appears to be intermittently sticking after you press the "space" key....

Thanks for the heads up. I'll use the other one. Any better now?

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by SadBanana

Oh, sorry about that one. I did not realise that there was a requirement to deal extensively with people taking their egos out for a ride before getting back to the subject of TalkTalk using DPI to extract non-routing information from peoples communications in order to snout about in places they may have no right to be.

Actually I was declaring an interest, being open about a potential source of influence rather than simply offering my opinion. It was no ego trip I was being transparent, if I just happily give opinions then am asked what I do for a living and mention I work in a not dissimilar field from this stuff I leave myself open to accusations of bias.

Originally Posted by SadBanana

I had assumed that 'Iggy' was, for the purposes of self gratification, deliberately being slightly behind the curve and referring to Phorms past efforts where they were trying to replace others adverts with their own.

No, Iggy was giving an honest and hopefully moderately educated opinion of things, this being a forum people tend to offer their opinions up for discussion, it works much more smoothly that way than offering them up as facts. Iggy isn't that bothered by DPI that is being nosey so long as it's not able to be linked back to him without appropriate court involvement and inserting content remains where he draws the line so long as this anonymity is respected. Iggy appreciates that we are followed to some extent in many ways throughout our lives and fully expects this to flow into online life to some degree. Iggy doesn't think his usage data is sacrosanct, nor is he self-centred enough to think that ISPs take a specific interest in him any more than Tesco might when he beeps his Clubcard. Companies collect statistics about our shopping, is it really that surprising they may collect them about the websites we visit?

From that point of view Phorm's OIX is potentially quite distasteful to Iggy while he is largely indifferent to PhormDiscover and the like.

Iggy's opinion remains the one in this post and his disdain for such things likewise remains.

It's pretty odd to accuse someone of 'self-gratification' though. Of course I post on the forum for self-gratification, I enjoy the debate and enjoy the odd snippets of information and education one picks up from them. Considering oneself to be right all the time and attempting to correct those who disagree, whether they are actually correct or may be correct and their views worth considering, would be horribly boring.

Originally Posted by SadBanana

Also seems to happen here according to some sort of inverse cubed law.. I suppose this must be a forum as well. Given no facts it is quite hard to respond in kind.

If you have such an issue with people disagreeing with your point of view, which given your posting history you appear to, perhaps your blood pressure and general demeanour would find it beneficial if you stick to preaching to the converted.

Your post however really is totally sticking with the standard MO, and you have once again brought a smile to my face - thank you and if I don't speak to you before hand a happy new year.

[SadBanana]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Actually I was declaring an interest, being open about a potential source of influence rather than simply offering my opinion. It was no ego trip I was being transparent, if I just happily give opinions then am asked what I do for a living and mention I work in a not dissimilar field from this stuff I leave myself open to accusations of bias.

And this I will believe? No, sorry. As presented by yourself and, it would seem, the Mods it might be apparent to me, [imho], that you have regularly taken the opportunity to wave your supposed experience about the place in order to give an impression that your opinion is worth more than that of others along with the implication that others may or do not know what they are talking about.

I had assumed that 'Iggy' was, for the purposes of self gratification, deliberately being slightly behind the curve and referring to Phorms past efforts where they were trying to replace others adverts with their own.

No, Iggy was giving an honest and hopefully moderately educated opinion of things

Then perhaps Iggy might feel the need to update or re-educate himself on Phorms claims for their current system and how they think it is operating unless Iggy just wants to cloud the, lack of, discussion.

This being a forum people tend to offer their opinions up for discussion, it works much more smoothly that way than offering them up as facts.

Such as the apparent 'fact' that Phorm replaces content in transit? I am sure you will set me straight.

Iggy isn't that bothered by DPI that is being nosey so long as it's not able to be linked back to him without appropriate court involvement and inserting content remains where he draws the line so long as this anonymity is respected.

Iggy might also live on a diet of fried to carbonized eggs and bacon and not be bothered about the layers of grease that build up on the cooker. Given Iggy is not bothered he sees no reason for others to be.

Iggy appreciates that we are followed to some extent in many ways throughout our lives and fully expects this to flow into online life to some degree. Iggy doesn't think his usage data is sacrosanct, nor is he self-centred enough to think that ISPs take a specific interest in him any more than Tesco might when he beeps his Clubcard.

Iggy uses the Clubcard example and does not miss the chance to imply that anyone concerned about these things is looking for a Warhol moment. Next thing he will be telling me about Google.

Companies collect statistics about our shopping, is it really that surprising they may collect them about the websites we visit?

I had noticed that but would choose, given the cast in iron opportunity, to make a choice about it.

Not wishing to be on topic... but it would seem that TalkTalk are not offering that opportunity.

From that point of view Phorm's OIX is potentially quite distasteful to Iggy while he is largely indifferent to PhormDiscover and the like.

Iggy's opinion remains the one in this post and his disdain for such things likewise remains.

So Iggy's opinion would be the one that matters.

As long as people do not leech off others original leeching things will be OK as long as people are allowed to leech in the first place. Naturally this would exclude any concerns expressed by those who are subjected to the process and their concerns are therefore not part of the equation.

It's pretty odd to accuse someone of 'self-gratification' though. Of course I post on the forum for self-gratification, I enjoy the debate and enjoy the odd snippets of information and education one picks up from them. Considering oneself to be right all the time and attempting to correct those who disagree, whether they are actually correct or may be correct and their views worth considering, would be horribly boring.

If you have such an issue with people disagreeing with your point of view, which given your posting history you appear to, perhaps your blood pressure and general demeanour would find it beneficial if you stick to preaching to the converted.

Your post however really is totally sticking with the standard MO, and you have once again brought a smile to my face - thank you and if I don't speak to you before hand a happy new year.

Classic.

Perhaps you might consider changing 'Very Droll' to 'Not Very Sophisticated'

ROFL - the zealots are getting miffed by rational replies, and respond in their usual manner.

Nothing new there then ...

[SadBanana]

Originally Posted by Hugh

ROFL - the zealots are getting miffed by rational replies, and respond in their usual manner.

Well done Sir.

May I assume I am unable to express an independent opinion [imho] without having some Mod, or two, jumping on it.

Not that I would be suggesting your opinions are polarised.

You may wish to read the disclaimer at the bottom of my posts, which hopefully will clarify in which mode (mod/cf member) I am posting in on this topic.

It is amusing for you to state that my opinions are polarised (pot, kettle, black does spring to mind) - my mind is quite open, but I personally have issues with polemic rants and the kind of abuse posted on some of the FOI requests put forward by your NoDPI compatriots.

I realise that the facts may not fit your view, but they remain, as always, the facts....

Originally Posted by SadBanana

Well done Sir.

May I assume I am unable to express an independent opinion [imho] without having some Mod, or two, jumping on it.

Not that I would be suggesting your opinions are polarised.

You are perfectly entitled to express your opinion here, within the usual forum rules. You are not entitled to expect your opinion to stand on a pedestal where no other forum member (whether moderator or not) can criticize or question it.

[SadBanana]

You are perfectly entitled to express your opinion here, within the usual forum rules. You are not entitled to expect your opinion to stand on a pedestal where no other forum member (whether moderator or not) can criticize or question it.

Oh...

ROFL - the zealots are getting miffed by rational replies, and respond in their usual manner.

Nothing new there then ...

Thanks for your 'critical' input. Not that I would be criticizing it.

Originally Posted by SadBanana

Oh...





Thanks for your 'critical' input. Not that I would be criticizing it.

Really? So why comment then?If it's not a criticism what is it..