National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by martyh

I know what the link says but that isn't what you said ,you have stated that the government block reports which doesn't sound very voluntary to me

It's not a legal block. But when a government minister says that they don't want you to report something, then believe me, unless it is a huge news story it would be in the business interest to follow their withes. Otherwise investigations may start into dodgy reporting practices, that may otherwise be ignored.

If it is a big story of national interest, and it came out that the government had tried to hush it up, then the poo could really hit the fan. But with a story about a mother and child being rescued from a fire, then nobody cares if it isn't reported.

And if you don't believe me, then do a bit of research. It was during the pay dispute in 2003 (if I remember right). And see if you can find any story about a mother and a two year old child being saved in Stevenage.

I wonder how these stories made it past the censor....

http://www.thecomet.net/news/woman_a...omes_1_1080358 (woman and child rescued by fire service)

http://www.thecomet.net/news/stevena...tack_1_1111288 (woman and two children rescued by fire service)

---------- Post added at 18:51 ---------- Previous post was at 18:39 ----------

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

Senior management in the media are rarely members of the NUJ. And they are the ones who get the pressure from the government.

And national press journalists aren't well known for their compassion and understanding for others are they?

---------- Post added at 15:50 ---------- Previous post was at 15:43 ----------



No we aren't. Read the link and you will see that it is supposed voluntary agreement. However I'm sure it would be made clear that a mutual back scratching agreement should be made.

But the people who write the stories are - do you really believe that this sort of thing would not be publicised by journalist on blogs/forums/etc?

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by Hugh

I wonder how these stories made it past the censor....

http://www.thecomet.net/news/woman_a...omes_1_1080358 (woman and child rescued by fire service)

http://www.thecomet.net/news/stevena...tack_1_1111288 (woman and two children rescued by fire service)

Probably because both of those were in 2011. The dispute was in 2003!!!

Originally Posted by Hugh

But the people who write the stories are - do you really believe that this sort of thing would not be publicised by journalist on blogs/forums/etc?

Yes they may be. But that isn't national press that is read or viewed by millions.

It isn't a gagging order, it's just a request to not report on certain stories.

So the D-Notice was only happening during the dispute?

That point wasn't clear.

[nomadking]

Well this one made it past any 'censor'.

Public sector strike led to ambulance delay for man who died

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

Probably because both of those were in 2011. The dispute was in 2003!!!



Yes they may be. But that isn't national press that is read or viewed by millions.

It isn't a gagging order, it's just a request to not report on certain stories.

so this has gone from the government "blocking" stories to a request .Have you considered that the local press may have considered the story not newsworthy ,i mean a headline that reads "mother and son saved firemen do their job" isn't that news worthy is it ,it happens all the time ,every day in fact

There a couple like this and this from the time of the strike, but I am sure there will be a reason why they got past the D-Notice....

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by Hugh

So the D-Notice was only happening during the dispute?

That point wasn't clear.

Sorry if I didn't make that clear. But that was the whole point of what I was saying.

They don't put a D-Notice on making us look good most of the time, because as the fire service is part of the public sector it makes them look good to say to the public 'look what a great fire service we have created'. In fact just before the dispute in 2003, they were just about to release a report saying that the fire service was the most efficient of all public services. But they soon put a stop to that being released.

---------- Post added at 21:30 ---------- Previous post was at 21:29 ----------

Originally Posted by nomadking

Well this one made it past any 'censor'.

And that's because they want stories like that released because it puts the unions in a bad light.

---------- Post added at 21:37 ---------- Previous post was at 21:30 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

so this has gone from the government "blocking" stories to a request .Have you considered that the local press may have considered the story not newsworthy ,i mean a headline that reads "mother and son saved firemen do their job" isn't that news worthy is it ,it happens all the time ,every day in fact

You really need to know your subject before you comment.

Local newspapers will report on wheelie bin fires, and ducklings being rescued. On lighter news days a 2 year old and his mother being rescued from a house fire would actually make national news.

And no it doesn't happen on a daily basis...thankfully. The same as firefighters being killed on duty (doing their job for the safety of others), doesn't happen on a regular basis either...but it does happen far too often. And it happens more often now than at any time since the second world war.

As I said, a request using a D-Notice is as good as a block, if you look into other possible implications if they don't comply.

---------- Post added at 21:40 ---------- Previous post was at 21:37 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

There a couple like this and this from the time of the strike, but I am sure there will be a reason why they got past the D-Notice....

The first one was more of a comedy story, rather than making people believe that firefighters were deserving of the pay rise they were after.

The second on was from earlier this month. There is no D-Notice in place at the moment.

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

You really need to know your subject before you comment.

Local newspapers will report on wheelie bin fires, and ducklings being rescued. On lighter news days a 2 year old and his mother being rescued from a house fire would actually make national news.

And no it doesn't happen on a daily basis...thankfully. The same as firefighters being killed on duty (doing their job for the safety of others), doesn't happen on a regular basis either...but it does happen far too often. And it happens more often now than at any time since the second world war.

As I said, a request using a D-Notice is as good as a block, if you look into other possible implications if they don't comply.

.

Tim ,i suggest you read up on DA notices and find out how they work before you dig the hole your in any deeper.The government can't issue a DA notice without putting it through a committee made up of a few civil servants ,the associate editor of Sky News and currently 14 editors and executives from the media including Google ,not one single member of the government sits on the committee .So if you think that all those media representatives would allow the government to use a system that is only to be used to prevent sensitive material getting into the public domain be used on a poxy little story about firemen saving a mother and child from a house fire in stevenage then you are more deluded than captain deluded who lives on the planet deluded

you may wish to read this http://www.dnotice.org.uk/faqs.htm#5

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by martyh

Tim ,i suggest you read up on DA notices and find out how they work before you dig the hole your in any deeper.The government can't issue a DA notice without putting it through a committee made up of a few civil servants ,the associate editor of Sky News and currently 14 editors and executives from the media including Google ,not one single member of the government sits on the committee .So if you think that all those media representatives would allow the government to use a system that is only to be used to prevent sensitive material getting into the public domain be used on a poxy little story about firemen saving a mother and child from a house fire in stevenage then you are more deluded than captain deluded who lives on the planet deluded

you may wish to read this http://www.dnotice.org.uk/faqs.htm#5

You really are very nieve about how governments operate

[Chrysalis]

government are all a honest bunch who never lie, mislead, cover anything up etc. Didnt you know tim

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

You really are very nieve about how governments operate

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

government are all a honest bunch who never lie, mislead, cover anything up etc. Didnt you know tim

It's pointless trying to have a adult conversation with people so blinded by conspiracy and paranoia that they cannot even see common sense and facts

Thought you may be interested in this bit from my earlier link

May not ‘damage’ just be official embarrassment when something has gone wrong?

• Not as far as the DA-Notice System is concerned; political and official embarrassment are not reasons for excluding material from public disclosure.

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by martyh

It's pointless trying to have a adult conversation with people so blinded by conspiracy and paranoia that they cannot even see common sense and facts

Thought you may be interested in this bit from my earlier link

It's not paranoia. We were told by the FBU that it would happen, and guess what, it did.

Remember it is only when you are directly involved that you see differences in what is normally reported, and what isn't reported when it suits the gevernments agenda.

If it was a car fire, or a bedroom fire with nobody injured, then you could just put it down to there not being space in the paper. But as I said previously, this was one story that would often be national news. But it wasn't even reported. Just the same as the serious accident that firefighters left the picket line to attend, on the personal request of an ambulance officer. The army were mobilised to it, and actually assisted the striking firefighters in rescuing the casualty. And the army officer in charge commented afterwards that they were glad that the firefighters broke their strike to attend, as they wouldn't have had a clue on their own, and the casualty would probably have died....this wasn't reported either. In fact try and find any reports during the period of industrial action that praised firefighters.

As for the earlier link, you can take that with a pinch of salt, as I also said earlier. The government would use the excuse that it was in the interest of the nation, because the MOD had to cover the strike, so the took them away from defending the country. And what would happen if that was challenged legally? Well the industrial action would most likely be over by then.

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

It's not paranoia. We were told by the FBU that it would happen, and guess what, it did.

.

and you believed them , like they don't have an agenda during industrial action

[nomadking]

One thing I remember about when the Army took over fire fighting duties, is that they complained of boredom, because there was so little for them to do.