Technology in Sport

[sherer]

for the 66 "goal" in the final that is using old cameras and replays etc they now have modern technology including sensors in the ball and on the goal line and also cameras in the goal posts etc that can help see this better.. as i said this was tested in Peru but as DanielF pointed out the results were inconclusive..

the problem here is that rules make no mention of whether someone is trying to slide in and win the ball or doing a deliberate foul.. which is why there is so much diving going on

it still seems strange to me that in a game with as much money as football and as fast as football only has 1 linesman per half and one ref.. why not have 4 linesmen ?

during a match there are only two times when TV should be used.. did the ball cross the goal line ? also ATM players who get treatment, fall to the ground etc have to go off the pitch and come back on.. while they are off the pitch the fourth official should review the foul on TV and if it was clear he dived then he should stay off the pitch for 10 mins

although sometimes it is hard to tell if a foul as been committed or a player dived once we get away from the diving culture players will be more honest and won't dive all the time

also this is from "The Laws of the Game" from the FIFA web site

Originally Posted by The Laws of the Game

A player is cautioned and shown the yellow card if he commits any of the following seven offences:

1. is guilty of unsporting behaviour

this means any player going up the ref waving an imaginary card should be booked for being unsporting

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by Graham

I don't think that Referees are making any more mistakes than they ever have before, but now, with a dozen or more cameras covering every angle of big games, all decisions are subject to microscopic review, playing the tape back time and again, when the Ref gets just *one* shot at it.

And what message would this send out? The Referee's decision is supposed to be final, but still we see players trying to argue, intimidate or browbeat the Ref into changing his ruling (which they must *not* do) and were every slightly controversial decision go to video it would only say that "what the Ref says is unimportant, it's the video camera that's really running the game")

This should not happen.

Thats the point it shouldnt be final. The linesman in my case bailed out cause he got scared of the home fans, what happens if a ref has a soft touch for a club and is leniant to them in the game, who questions him, who audits him, what punishment should he get for bad decisions that can cost clubs thousands or millions.

---------- Post added at 10:15 ---------- Previous post was at 10:12 ----------

Concerning it slowing the game down, you could have an ear peice in the ref's ear. Then only use it for controversial goals and penalties and sending off's, the bulk of the game can be left free flowing.

We have moved on from pub games, football is massive now, in a pub game it can be ok some decisions go wrong the consequences arent large but professional football is a completely different story altogether.

[sherer]

last night I was watching the programme on ITV 4 about when Man U played Benfica in 66. i saw at least two incidents where in the modern game Best would have left in leg in and amde sure he was tripped and fell over to win a free kick \ pen

the problem is players these does now stop playing football and make sure they "win" a free kick or pen..

i've seen players go down after having their shirt pulled with faces of pain and screaming in agony.. how on earth can having your shirt pulled hurt you ? the FA, UEFA and FIFA are missing the point in that some of these are fouls but 9 times out of 10 the player who is on the ground has known the tackle was coming and made sure contact was made.. they have stopped playing football and going after the ball and would rather fall over and win a free kick or pen

[Russ]

Essien should have gone off last night for his tackle on Hamann - the referee only gave him a yellow card but said when he looked at the tackle again on tv after the game, he wanted to up it to a red card.

The use of improved technology would ensure players like Essien spend as little time on the pitch as possible.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Russ D

Essien should have gone off last night for his tackle on Hamann - the referee only gave him a yellow card but said when he looked at the tackle again on tv after the game, he wanted to up it to a red card.

The use of improved technology would ensure players like Essien spend as little time on the pitch as possible.

I thought Essien was not booked at all? But I agree, he should have been sent off.

[sherer]

Originally Posted by Russ D

Essien should have gone off last night for his tackle on Hamann - the referee only gave him a yellow card but said when he looked at the tackle again on tv after the game, he wanted to up it to a red card.

The use of improved technology would ensure players like Essien spend as little time on the pitch as possible.

the trouble with things like that is how do you deal with that during a game.. do you let the game go on while a TV ref watches the replays and then if he should be sent off talk to ref over a mike and the ref gives him a red card ? but then what happens if that player scores ?

do you stop the game.. if so what incidents do you stop the game for and for how long ?

after the tackle Hamann was injured and lied down on the pitch and waited for treatment. he didn't roll around on the floor 15 times going "aarrrggggg" and after the tackle he could still go on.. so how can after a slight bit of contact can a player roll over 90 times from side to side.. the reactions of a player when they are on the ground can tell you alot about whether they are diving or not

[Russ]

Originally Posted by sherer

the trouble with things like that is how do you deal with that during a game.. do you let the game go on while a TV ref watches the replays and then if he should be sent off talk to ref over a mike and the ref gives him a red card ? but then what happens if that player scores ?

do you stop the game.. if so what incidents do you stop the game for and for how long ?

after the tackle Hamann was injured and lied down on the pitch and waited for treatment. he didn't roll around on the floor 15 times going "aarrrggggg" and after the tackle he could still go on.. so how can after a slight bit of contact can a player roll over 90 times from side to side.. the reactions of a player when they are on the ground can tell you alot about whether they are diving or not

An ideal time would be as the player received treatment - it wouldn't take long for a ref to check the incident as they usually occur in seconds. Perhaps there could be a time limit of, say, 5 seconds for a ref to come to a decision.

[sherer]

a good idea but what about when they don't need treatment ?

the thing is during the prem we have had diving.. during the final of the European Cup there was diving.. which affected the outcome of the final and several millions of pounds in prize money]

during the last World Cup and European Championships there was diving and there will be diving during the world cup in Germany too

what we need is a global decision that comes in across all leagues, and competitions.. at the moment all they get is maybe missing one game

what we need is 10 game bans.. ALL the players now have in grained reactions to cheat and dive. by having lengthy bans this will help to drive it out.. it is an over the top reaction but what they are doing on the pitch is over the top too.

the thing is the FA can't do this and it will harm the English game and have no affect across Europe and the World game it needs to be done with UEFA and FIFA

what we need is a proper fair play competition not that FIFA one that says if the fans sing you get points

the trouble is the game makes money so no one cares

i've seen it with players from my club and it sickens me to see it

[Russ]

Originally Posted by sherer

a good idea but what about when they don't need treatment ?

In Essien's case his usual MO is to inflict an awful tackle then pretend he's been injured himself in order to try and gain sympathy from the ref - that would be an ideal time.

Remember referees have been stopping the game to confer with the linesman for years - this only takes a few seconds too.

[sherer]

i don't want to the game to be slowed and stop started all the time as has been mentioned above you need to review the tackles from several different angles etc before you can be sure this would take about 2-3 mins per tackle leading to longer matches and TV problems with scheduling..

if if that was brought in the ref would only give a yellow or red card and they would miss one match at most.. i don't think that is enough of a deterant to drive driving out of the game

that's why i'm in favour of looking into these things after the game and then handing out longer bans

imagine if you owned a club and had to shell out several million a week on players wages.. no club would be able to afford to have 3-4 players banned for 10 games for diving adn cheating.. after having that sort of deterant for a few years it would drive it out of the game completely

[Graham]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

what happens if a ref has a soft touch for a club and is leniant to them in the game, who questions him, who audits him, what punishment should he get for bad decisions that can cost clubs thousands or millions.

Referee's decisions should, of course, be subject to "peer review" ie if other refs or the FA think someone's biased towards a particular club (which I think is usually simply a case of bad luck or sour grapes) or is making a lot of bad decisions, they should be told to sort their act out or stop refereeing, but that's not the same as querying every decision made on the *at the time* that it is made.

---------- Post added at 00:33 ---------- Previous post was at 00:31 ----------

Originally Posted by Russ D

Essien should have gone off last night for his tackle on Hamann - the referee only gave him a yellow card but said when he looked at the tackle again on tv after the game, he wanted to up it to a red card.

The use of improved technology would ensure players like Essien spend as little time on the pitch as possible.

I have no idea about the particular situation you describe, but, in general, if replays are showing that a player is persistantly engaging in unsportsmanlike conduct then they should be called before a Disciplinary Committee and be required to explain their actions and then fined, suspended, banned as appropriate to their offence.

However this is something that needs to be done *outside* the 90 minutes of the game, not *during* it.

[sherer]

think one of the problems is that the refs seems to have clue about football or what is going on on the pitch

during the United game at the end Rio have a minor bit of contact on the keeper with a shoulder barge.. although it was more like bumping into someone while walking down the street.. the keeper went down adn then asked for treatment ??? he fell on the grass and there was no real contact anyway.. anyone who knows anything about football or even real life knows he was acting but he was still allowed to get away with it

how cn any ref believe he was injured and needed treatment ?

[gazzae]

Originally Posted by Graham

Referee's decisions should, of course, be subject to "peer review" ie if other refs or the FA think someone's biased towards a particular club (which I think is usually simply a case of bad luck or sour grapes) or is making a lot of bad decisions, they should be told to sort their act out or stop refereeing, but that's not the same as querying every decision made on the *at the time* that it is made.

They already are. In the past premiership refs have been demoted to lower league games after bad performances.

---------- Post added at 11:15 ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 ----------

Originally Posted by sherer

think one of the problems is that the refs seems to have clue about football or what is going on on the pitch

during the United game at the end Rio have a minor bit of contact on the keeper with a shoulder barge.. although it was more like bumping into someone while walking down the street.. the keeper went down adn then asked for treatment ??? he fell on the grass and there was no real contact anyway.. anyone who knows anything about football or even real life knows he was acting but he was still allowed to get away with it

how cn any ref believe he was injured and needed treatment ?

Unforunately you never know.

A few years ago I was playing in my usual midfield general role and I slide in to tackle a player, won the ball and I thought there was very little contact. That player went down and was rolling around in pain, I told him to get up as did some other of my teammates who thought he was playacting as it seemed an innocuous challange. It turned out that whatever way he fell he ruptured his ACL.

[sherer]

Originally Posted by gazzae

Unforunately you never know.

A few years ago I was playing in my usual midfield general role and I slide in to tackle a player, won the ball and I thought there was very little contact. That player went down and was rolling around in pain, I told him to get up as did some other of my teammates who thought he was playacting as it seemed an innocuous challange. It turned out that whatever way he fell he ruptured his ACL.

true there are the odd time when this is true but this was in the 90th minute when the player wanted to waste time.. it was plainly obvious he wasn't hurt in fact where the physio sprayed him was no where near where Rio "touched" him anyway, if there was any contact

refs seem to have no real knowledge of football

[gazzae]

Originally Posted by sherer

true there are the odd time when this is true but this was in the 90th minute when the player wanted to waste time.. it was plainly obvious he wasn't hurt in fact where the physio sprayed him was no where near where Rio "touched" him anyway, if there was any contact

refs seem to have no real knowledge of football

He was sprayed on the shoulder, it is possible he landed heavly. Now if you were talking about the player who was stretchered off only to jump straight off the stretcher and spint down the touchline you may have a point. If you go off on a stretcher you should stay off for 5 minutes or so.

As for timewasting lets do what is now happening in rugby, if there is an injury the clock stops.