Mind The Pay Gap? Tube Drivers 'To Get £55k'

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Stuart

On the flip side: Tube workers get what they want. Due to the disruption, companies lose a lot of money. TFL have to increase fares to pay for what the Tube drivers demand. Thus people have to pay more. Those people will have to either have increased wages, or try and cut their own costs. Either way, other companies end up (indirectly) paying. If they pay too much, they risk financial trouble, or have to cut costs themselves (even the major companies have finite resources - ask the staff of Woolworths and Focus), which may result in store or office closures, and job losses.

In the mean time, the strike action persuades international companies to look at cities in other countries to put their headquarters. After all, their staff need a reliable transport infrastructure to get to work, and higher fares will mean higher wage demands. If even one of these companies closes their UK office, this can result in thousands of job losses.

You think that doesn't happen? I ready a couple of years ago that HSBC had already threatened to move their world headquarters from it's current home in Canary Wharf. A building that houses thousands of workers.


On the contrary, the Government should not only not ban strike breaking, but they should increase the number of jobs where striking is banned.


Personally, I am not opposed to more companies doing profit shares in the same way as John Lewis does. It's worked well for them, their staff and their customers.

---------- Post added at 13:15 ---------- Previous post was at 13:11 ----------



Personally, I do think we should investigate ways to persuade more people to start voting.

Regarding your comment about members being too busy working, I'd argue that if ANY union member cared enough about a subject to want to strike about it, he or she would make the time to vote.

Although judging by what a couple of tube drivers I know have said about the job, I doubt that most of the membership would be too busy working to find time to vote..

I have read your points and I would say that TO counter Companies that want to leave the UK, Well this government should make it a important part of our overseas polcy that no nation has a anything more than a small advantage in very of pay, working conditions and freedom of unions! The would stop companies from moving from one place to other to enrich themselfs and the very rich people that control them!

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

Sorry, Also the products were rubbish, butn it was not the falut of the Trade Unions alone

Oh right and you're critical that the banks didn't want to lend more money to a company effectively being run by a militant union with a workforce who were unable or unwilling to build a competitive product and wound up having to be propped up by the state.

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Osem

Oh right and you're critical that the banks didn't want to lend more money to a company effectively being run by a militant union with a workforce who were unable or unwilling to build a competitive product and wound up having to be propped up by the state.

I am not blaming the bank for all this, but the management ans the government as well

Also in what the banks did over BL, Will Hutton woul agree as he said this in his book "The State We're in: Why Britain Is in Crisis and How to Overcome It"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Hutton

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

Previous post was at 13:06 ----------

What about general Elections, If there is less than 50% voted, does that nullfy the reslut, may I go on about Shareholder Meetings, House of Commons and Lords etc...

And what about the fact that some members are too busy working to be voting!

Totally different scenarios ,a strike vote is usually a yes/no ballot .If a majority of members don't feel strong enough about an issue to vote then there is no issue .In a general election many people don't vote as a legitimate choice because they don't approve of any of the choices ,there is no "none of the above" option

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by martyh

Totally different scenarios ,a strike vote is usually a yes/no ballot .If a majority of members don't feel strong enough about an issue to vote then there is no issue .In a general election many people don't vote as a legitimate choice because they don't approve of any of the choices ,there is no "none of the above" option

Now having a "none of the above" would a good idea!

Well have you thought about MP votes then, if less the 50% does that mean this mean the law is not passed then?

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

You just don't get it you do! I care about perosnal Freedom, like freedom from povery and bad jobs, low wages etc

Evidently you don't given that you want to take away people's right to go to work. You're just waffling on about a socialist nirvana as I said before, with the usual total lack of regard for what you force people to forsake on the way.

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Evidently you don't given that you want to take away people's right to go to work. You're just waffling on about a socialist nirvana as I said before, with the usual total lack of regard for what you force people to forsake on the way.

What is the right to go work worth if your job is a dead end job!

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

I am not blaming the bank for all this, but the management ans the government as well

How about the Unions? Continual strikes (whether legit or not) would not have helped BL's balance..

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

What is the right to go work worth if your job is a dead end job!

What if your job winds up in China or India because you're totally uncompetitive?

---------- Post added at 13:51 ---------- Previous post was at 13:50 ----------

It seems the only group Alan can't bring himself to blame for anything is the unions.

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Stuart

How about the Unions? Continual strikes (whether legit or not) would not have helped BL's balance..

I would agree with that but they were a symptom not a cause!

---------- Post added at 13:54 ---------- Previous post was at 13:53 ----------

Originally Posted by Osem

What if your job winds up in China or India because you're totally uncompetitive?

---------- Post added at 13:51 ---------- Previous post was at 13:50 ----------

It seems the only group Alan can't bring himself to blame for anything is the unions.

Hence why we need to crack down on currency manipulations by those nations and force work and labour standard onto them with poltical pressure!

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

What is the right to go work worth if your job is a dead end job!

Some jobs are, sadly, dead end. Hate to break it to you but being a cleaner, serving behind the counter at a fast food outlet and several other jobs are not known for their prospects, doesn't mean they don't have to be done.

When you join the rest of us here:



We'll talk some more on this.

---------- Post added at 14:05 ---------- Previous post was at 14:02 ----------

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

Hence why we need to crack down on currency manipulations by those nations and force work and labour standard onto them with poltical pressure!

I don't rate our chances of forcing work and labour standards onto 2 countries with a combined population of 2.5bln.

Not that it's anything against the UK, I don't rate anyone's chances of forcing said standards onto them, be it the USA, the EU, or whomever else.

Not that it matters of course, while we continue to buy their cheaper goods nothing will change, and we're not going to stop doing that any time soon as those goods being so relatively cheap is the only reason many can afford them.

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Some jobs are, sadly, dead end. Hate to break it to you but being a cleaner, serving behind the counter at a fast food outlet and several other jobs are not known for their prospects, doesn't mean they don't have to be done.

When you join the rest of us here:



We'll talk some more on this.

---------- Post added at 14:05 ---------- Previous post was at 14:02 ----------



I don't rate our chances of forcing work and labour standards onto 2 countries with a combined population of 2.5bln.

Not that it's anything against the UK, I don't rate anyone's chances of forcing said standards onto them, be it the USA, the EU, or whomever else.

Not that it matters of course, while we continue to buy their cheaper goods nothing will change, and we're not going to stop doing that any time soon as those goods being so relatively cheap is the only reason many can afford them.

Well, My feet are are on earth while yours (and others who share the same view) are on a Thacherite dreamland that did not turn out to be true, the dead end jobs you are talking about are about the best most can expect in life, WHY!! cant we a a right to improve our lives by joining trade unions!

---------- Post added at 15:30 ---------- Previous post was at 15:29 ----------

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Those continual strikes frittered away customer support and the cash needed to invest in new models and technology: At one time they had a class leading front wheel drive system and liquid suspension when Ford were still using donkey cart springs and live axles.

Without funds they had to scrimp and make do: Even when the Metro came out as one of the models to try and save the company it had to make do with many parts from the original Mini as Austin/Morris, as it was called at that time, couldn't afford the £500 million needed to develop new engines and gearboxes.

No single strike killed that industry but the continual drip drip of disputes did, as it also did for many other of the heavy industies that we were once pre-eminent in.

Those that are too ready to strike on the slightest pretext should take a look at the history books and think again. There are very few jobs where sooner or later a machine/computer can't do the work more reliably, repeatably and for less money than a man/woman.

So why don;'t we just let computer do everything then

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

I would agree with that but they were a symptom not a cause!

---------- Post added at 13:54 ---------- Previous post was at 13:53 ----------



Hence why we need to crack down on currency manipulations by those nations and force work and labour standard onto them with poltical pressure!

You really think the UK has the political and economic clout to crack down on the likes of China?

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Osem

You really think the UK has the political and economic clout to crack down on the likes of China?

perhaps in his dreams Osem.

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

What I am saying is that Speacsavers can offord better pay and conditions!

You suffer from selective hearing/reading.

Smaller franchised Specsavers in the centre of London have not got the resources to give into constant union claims and their staff understand this point.Pointless having a union if it leads to the business closing.

Oh and don't you dare think of accusing me of being a Thatcherite. I'm merely a Pragmatist.