Mind The Pay Gap? Tube Drivers 'To Get £55k'

[Stuart]

I can't see anyone else but Alan talking about sick pay.

Back to the subject..

Unions do, IMO, have a place, if, and only if, they are willing to co-operate with the management to provide better working conditions for the workers. If the company is to stay solvent, the Unions need to resist the temptation to make outrageous demands. While TFL is in no danger of ever being insolvent, excessive demands from the unions could drive fares up past the point where companies consider it feasible to trade in London.

Let me explain that a little clearer. If people have to get the tube to work and the fares go up, they are going to want their wages to go up to compensate. If this happens too much, the companies may realise it's cheaper to employ people elsewhere to do the same jobs.

You can argue that it's only a problem for London. To some extent, you'd be right. However, London does contribute an awful lot of money to the economy.

Finally, excessive pay and holiday demands won't benefit the tube drivers, in the long run. TFL already have installed systems that could be used to enable driverless trains on a couple of lines. You can bet they are weighing up the pros and cons of upgrading the other lines, and continued striking by the tube drivers is only going to push them toward doing that.

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Hugh

You keep saying that - are you stating that the Specsavers Franchisees don't pay Sick Pay?

I have a friend who works there who told me about this

Originally Posted by Stuart

Did you read the bit about the Franchise? You realise that Franchises are actually licences to use the name, logos and various other things of a larger business and are often owned by small businesses? Small businesses who have no access to the finances and facilities of the company. As such, while the owners of specsavers may have over £1billion in assets, the franchisees won't have access to that.

Precisely!

Originally Posted by Stuart

Did you read the bit about the Franchise? You realise that Franchises are actually licences to use the name, logos and various other things of a larger business and are often owned by small businesses? Small businesses who have no access to the finances and facilities of the company. As such, while the owners of specsavers may have over £1billion in assets, the franchisees won't have access to that.

and that's what most of it is assets ,mostly in the form of shares from the franchisees buisness ........not that this has anything to do with tube driver strikes so i don't see why Alan thinks it's relavent

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

I have a friend who works there who told me about this

Are they new there?

A lot of retail companies only pay SSP in the first six months?

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

Are you sure that ther is a high supply of people that want to be tube drivers, I mean it is not this best of jobs (I mean the actual work you have to do) and anyway, you do not have to use public transport!

Yes there is a very high supply of people who want to be tube drivers. The waiting list to train is between 18 months and 2 years. Could be higher still now.

People not having to use public transport in London is a stupid and inane comment, for many there is absolutely no choice, and for many further people there's no viable choice.

Originally Posted by martyh

and that's what most of it is assets ,mostly in the form of shares from the franchisees buisness ........not that this has anything to do with tube driver strikes so i don't see why Alan thinks it's relavent

It's part of his telling me that everyone can join a union and my response that they can't because small business would go out of business if they had committed trade unions constantly striking..quoting my daughters specific case with SpecSavers because they don't have a monopoly on sales of glasses unlike the tube service has a large percentage of London transport.

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

Don't blame the unions blame the business and political elite for all this

Yes, of course, because so many businesses call their employess out on strike, it must be their fault.

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

And another thing, If you want to avoid strikes on the tube, vote for someone who is mork likly to give in and be co-operative with the unions than someone who is not

You mean vote for the person most likely to give in to blackmail, yeah, that sounds like a great plan.

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

... if more people were members of strong unions then we would be all better off!

Yes, we could all look forward to the many multiple strikes [& the chaos they cause] followed by the massive service & goods price increases due to the increased business costs.

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

For goodness sake, join a union to get better pay and conditions!

Presumably to cover all the extra money you will need to pay for the massive price increases.

What planet was this all on again ?

Originally Posted by Paul M

What planet was this all on again ?

this one, presumably:

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

Are you sure that ther is a high supply of people that want to be tube drivers, I mean it is not this best of jobs (I mean the actual work you have to do) and anyway, you do not have to use public transport!

I don't work in Central London, but have done in the past, so I know what it's like.

Put simply, the tube is the *only* option available to a lot of people when they go to work.

Take, for example, my old journey. I used to work in Baker Street. I live near Bromley. Believe me when I say there is no way to travel from Bromley to Baker Street in an hour or less (at Rush Hour) without using the Tube.

A lot of London has the same problem. The Tube drivers know this, and take advantage, which is precisely why they should not be allowed to strike.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Yes there is a very high supply of people who want to be tube drivers. The waiting list to train is between 18 months and 2 years. Could be higher still now.

People not having to use public transport in London is a stupid and inane comment, for many there is absolutely no choice, and for many further people there's no viable choice.

I'd be interested if you could even find out how to apply, the application system used to be quite straight forward but now even finding out how to get a form seems a major chore, even for those that work there and last time I looked the only adverts were for graduates or apprentices, neither of which involved driving a train.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

I'd be interested if you could even find out how to apply, the application system used to be quite straight forward but now even finding out how to get a form seems a major chore, even for those that work there and last time I looked the only adverts were for graduates or apprentices, neither of which involved driving a train.

A big part of the current queue is other LU employees, might not be any need to advertise if they've 2 years of waiting list.

[beeman]

If i remember rightly TFL DOSE NOT hire tube drivers from outside. All appointments for tube drivers come from within (ie station staff). So you will need to apply for a position on the platforms first. once there you can apply for the driver training program

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by martyh

and that's what most of it is assets ,mostly in the form of shares from the franchisees buisness ........not that this has anything to do with tube driver strikes so i don't see why Alan thinks it's relavent

What I am saying is that Speacsavers can offord better pay and conditions!

---------- Post added at 09:57 ---------- Previous post was at 09:53 ----------

Originally Posted by Paul M

Yes, of course, because so many businesses call their employess out on strike, it must be their fault.


You mean vote for the person most likely to give in to blackmail, yeah, that sounds like a great plan.


Yes, we could all look forward to the many multiple strikes [& the chaos they cause] followed by the massive service & goods price increases due to the increased business costs.

Presumably to cover all the extra money you will need to pay for the massive price increases.

What planet was this all on again ?

The extra money would come from the rich who would have less billions to spend with, It is not suprising that there are many Occupy Protests in the world!

There does not need to be many strikes, give in to unions demands and the very rich would have to make do with less billions in their swiss bank accounts!

---------- Post added at 10:00 ---------- Previous post was at 09:57 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

this one, presumably:

For godness sake, This was not caused just by Trade Unions but by inflations which caused workers to demand high wages, looked what happend when we weaken the power of trades unions, the rich got much richer and the rest have not at all or in some cases became poorer, and that just the start!

---------- Post added at 10:03 ---------- Previous post was at 10:00 ----------

Originally Posted by Stuart

I don't work in Central London, but have done in the past, so I know what it's like.

Put simply, the tube is the *only* option available to a lot of people when they go to work.

Take, for example, my old journey. I used to work in Baker Street. I live near Bromley. Believe me when I say there is no way to travel from Bromley to Baker Street in an hour or less (at Rush Hour) without using the Tube.

A lot of London has the same problem. The Tube drivers know this, and take advantage, which is precisely why they should not be allowed to strike.

I understand what you mean, but I did not vote for a mayor who is more interested in fighting Bob Crowe than trying to fix the many problems london and the south east is facing.

In Norway, Sweden and Denmark they are more generous in terms of public spending and union relations!

[MovedGoalPosts]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

I understand what you mean, but I did not vote for a mayor who is more interested in fighting Bob Crowe than trying to fix the many problems london and the south east is facing.

In Norway, Sweden and Denmark they are more generous in terms of public spending and union relations!

So to get this thread back on track, if at all possible, are you saying that the current deal that started this thread of £55k for tube drivers with future RPI + a bit linked wage increases is not in some way generous or appropriate. Or do you believe even more should be paid including the added demands of the Boxing Day working dispute?

At what stage would you suggest the underground's union demands would become unreasonable? Should the taxpayer and travelling public just accept that TFL and the mayor will roll over to every demand that is made of them, regardless of the cost incurred and implications of that cost to the economy as a whole as well as the travelling public?