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Police to get tough on internet trolls.
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Old 24-09-2016, 15:12   #151
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

I agree.

Apparently, it's said to be racist because it's what was said by white farmers when their wives caught them having sex with their black female slaves.

The 'prickly situation' reference is because their pubic hair is supposedly more coarse than ours (I wouldn't know).

This is what I mean about making spurious claims to be able to call someone the R word!
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Old 29-09-2016, 21:24   #152
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

Those who questioned the law on hate crimes towards minority groups might be interested in the discussion on tonight's 'One Show', after the first feature about the growing racism against Polish people:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07vw606

It clarifies that a hate crime takes place if any hostile or prejudicial behaviour towards a person is believed by the victim, a witness or both to be as a result of:

- A persons (mental or physical) disability.

- A persons race or ethnicity.

- A persons religion or belief.

- A persons sexual orientation.

- A persons transgender identity.

Over 80% of reports end in prosecution as a result of this self defined crime.

I think that the term 'Social orientation' could be problematic from something we were told at a conference many years ago.

Many years before minority groups gained legal protection, some local authorities adopted 'equal opportunity' policies.

In one case a man was dismissed after it was discovered that he was a paedophile.

He argued that he should not be dismissed as paedophilia was his sexual orientation and, consequently, this action was acting against their own equal opportunities policy!

I can see why they use the term, as it conveniently encompasses all the minority sexualities together; but doing this may be problematic.

I imagine that a lot of adults would be hostile and prejudicial towards someone found guilty of paedophilic activity; could they be found guilty of a hate crime for doing so?

As the law stands i'd say yes, which seems ridiculous (I'm not talking about cases where people have been physically violent towards people or property).
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Old 30-09-2016, 10:04   #153
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

The law is a mess. Look at how debates on belief disintegrate even on the fairly polite forum here. There are people here of opposing beliefs and with this law simply stating that can be construed as being against another belief. Where is the line between discussion/debate and "hate" crime?

And then what if your belief system includes something against on of the other factors in the list (I'm deliberately trying to keep this general and non specific).

To my mind there is a difference between being against "the belief" and being against "the person". Again the line is hard to define though where that opposition becomes "hateful".

And then there is the problem that some groups deliberately set up to "test" the system and claim "hate" crime.
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Old 30-09-2016, 14:43   #154
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

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Originally Posted by tweetiepooh View Post
The law is a mess. Look at how debates on belief disintegrate even on the fairly polite forum here. There are people here of opposing beliefs and with this law simply stating that can be construed as being against another belief. Where is the line between discussion/debate and "hate" crime?

And then what if your belief system includes something against on of the other factors in the list (I'm deliberately trying to keep this general and non specific).

To my mind there is a difference between being against "the belief" and being against "the person". Again the line is hard to define though where that opposition becomes "hateful".

And then there is the problem that some groups deliberately set up to "test" the system and claim "hate" crime.
You make some very good points tweetiepooh.

I guess an internet discussion becomes a hate crime once polite debates have become vehicles for personal attacks or insults.

People with opposing views should be able to discuss matters without resorting to this.

It is true that political correctness can throw up conflicts. I've attended conferences where people have caught themselves up in knots.

For example, the biggie seems to be racism, with sexism, ableism etc lower down in the hierarchy.

Some delegates were supporting the right of others to live their lives according to traditional cultures, however, this involved men making their wives walk behind them as an act of deference.

The feminists, quite rightly in my view, objected to this most strongly.
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Old 06-10-2016, 17:42   #155
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

And so it continues...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...lls-who-targe/

Very sad
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Old 07-12-2016, 18:27   #156
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

True to their word, this was announced today:

http://www.newsjs.com/url.php?p=http...ws/uk-38226264

It's designed to help those who are harassed by strangers in various situations.

It's good to see that it's recognised that not all trolls etc are necessarily bad people and that their mental health will be considered and dealt with too.

Long overdue.

Last edited by RichardCoulter; 07-12-2016 at 18:30.
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Old 07-12-2016, 19:01   #157
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

Quote:
Police will be able to apply to the courts for an order before a stalking suspect has been convicted or even arrested.
I hope due process is done before action is taken, there seems to be an ever increasing number of 'peculiar' people about petty & vindictive enough to set people up

especially as this is the penalty.

Quote:
Breaching an order's conditions will be a criminal offence with a maximum sentence of five years in jail.
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Old 07-12-2016, 22:39   #158
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

.... and let's hope females stalking males are treated equally under the law. I heard Amber Rudd being interviewed about this and once again you could be forgiven for thinking that men are ever victims of this sort of thing. Quelle surprise...
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Old 08-12-2016, 03:03   #159
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

Well the article itself answers that ;

Quote:
The announcement is part of a set of measures to prevent violence against women and girls (VAWG).
Not biased at all then, despite the figures also quoted

Quote:
According to the Crime Survey for England and Wales 4.6% of women and 2.7% of men aged 16-59 were victims in 2015/16.
So while not equal, the ratio is less than 2:1 (roughly 1.7 to 1).
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Old 08-12-2016, 14:01   #160
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

Well who'd have thought eh?

No wonder guys don't tend to complain much, they're not really being sent the message that their problems are just as valid are they? It's exactly the same when it comes to domestic violence, very little mention made of the abuse men suffer and the abject lack of services and support for them. Maybe the current focus on the abuse of young boys within football will change things for the better and maybe if the message sent out to them had been different in the past they'd have felt able to report it and this abuse would have come to light far earlier than it has.
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Old 08-12-2016, 18:17   #161
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem View Post
Well who'd have thought eh?

No wonder guys don't tend to complain much, they're not really being sent the message that their problems are just as valid are they? It's exactly the same when it comes to domestic violence, very little mention made of the abuse men suffer and the abject lack of services and support for them. Maybe the current focus on the abuse of young boys within football will change things for the better and maybe if the message sent out to them had been different in the past they'd have felt able to report it and this abuse would have come to light far earlier than it has.
Part of the problem with men seeking help is a culture that doesn't allow them to talk about it. You mention the football abuse but then look at some of the reactions to it, especially that of that darts player, inferring they weren't 'real men'.
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Old 09-12-2016, 01:00   #162
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

As I mentioned in the football sex abuse thread, the organisations taking the calls from victims have said that in a way it's a good thing that football was involved.

They believe that as most men can relate to football, it makes it easier for them to discuss something so difficult.
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Old 09-12-2016, 14:42   #163
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem View Post
.... and let's hope females stalking males are treated equally under the law. I heard Amber Rudd being interviewed about this and once again you could be forgiven for thinking that men are ever victims of this sort of thing. Quelle surprise...
A Daily Mail article today says that 1/3 of victims of domestic violence are men.

It's also worth noting that domestic violence doesn't have to be in the form of physical attacks.

---------- Post added at 14:42 ---------- Previous post was at 14:33 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by techguyone View Post
I hope due process is done before action is taken, there seems to be an ever increasing number of 'peculiar' people about petty & vindictive enough to set people up

especially as this is the penalty.
I can't see this being much of a problem. All a person who feels that they are being stalked, harassed etc has to do is ask them to stop contacting or referring to them via any medium because it's upsetting them.

If they continue, then it's clear that they are deliberately doing it and should face the full impact of the law.

For example, a man may wish the attentions of a woman. He may not even realise that contacting her on internet forums/social networking sites et al, sending texts, writing to her, ringing her, calling round etc is a problem and may not be intentionally making a nuisance of himself.

However, if he continues after the woman has clearly stated that the attention is unwanted, that's when the law will come into play.

This law will be useful for allsorts of situations, not just cases of harassment towards women, minority groups etc.
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Old 09-12-2016, 15:02   #164
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien View Post
Part of the problem with men seeking help is a culture that doesn't allow them to talk about it. You mention the football abuse but then look at some of the reactions to it, especially that of that darts player, inferring they weren't 'real men'.
Well that isn't going to change all the time we have governments which launch new initiatives about abuse etc. without even mentioning the plight of the rapidly increasing number of male victims.

If it's hard for a woman to report abuse how much harder for men, who aren't always believed, will likely be open to threats or actual claims of sexual assault/rape, will almost inevitably lose their homes if they've been unlucky enough to father children with their abuser, will come bottom of the pile when it comes to emergency housing and will almost certainly have their children used against them by their abusive partners?

There was a very moving discussion about this subject on LBC this morning and anyone who doubts the scale of the problem men are facing in our society I suggest they listen to it via the website.
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Old 09-12-2016, 17:07   #165
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

You're very passionate about this, perhaps you've had direct experience.

I hope not, but if you have, first hand experience is always invaluable in discussions like this.
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