National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by martyh

Or maybe you could accept that the local didn't get the story untill after the print deadline or they just didn't think it was newsworthy or they just didn't know about it instead of jumping to conclusions that the government are blocking the free press

Considering that they have been known to report on wheelie bin fires more than two weeks after they happened, then the deadline theory doesn't apply.

It was far more newsworthy than most of the stories that they print. I mean come on, a 2 year old boy playing with a lighter, and causing a fire that very nearly killed him and his mother. Both resuscitated on scene, and then rushed to hospital. Then the toddler had to be transferred to Adenbrooks where he had to undergo a complete blood transfusion due to his blood being saturated with carbon monoxide. And then being kept in hospital for another three weeks until he recovered.....no I can't see that being newsworthy, can you?

And they did know about it, because the press officer, who is the partner of a friend of mine actually gave them the report. As she also did for the RTC I mentioned. As the Ambulance press officer (who I also know well) also did. So that theory doesn't work either.

Originally Posted by martyh

seriously??? you have no idea why the government using exceptional powers for such a trivial story ,or any story other than ones involving national security would cause a scandal

I've explained that over and over again. There was a pay dispute, and the government didn't want public opinion to be on the side of the firefighters. So any stories that put them in a good light are supressed. And they release loads of propoganda (much of it lies) to make firefighters look bad. This is also done to stop firefighters putting over their side of the dispute.

It isn't a matter of national security, but they would have blown it all out of proportion.

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

Well I got no idea if DA notices were issued or not i have never said that.

No you haven't have you ,but if you had bothered to read instead of jumping in and waffling on about nonsense just so you could have a dig at me then maybe now you wouldn't look so foolish

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by martyh

No you haven't have you ,but if you had bothered to read instead of jumping in and waffling on about nonsense just so you could have a dig at me then maybe now you wouldn't look so foolish

Nobody should be having a dig at anyone. This is supposd to be a mature debate.

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

And by any means you have made it quite clear what you mean....violence, rioting, terrorism, and murder!

I see your facebook page has also been shut down, probably due to your extremist posts.

Now stop tring to move all the topics towards your political agenda, and let us get back on topic.

For god sake, you keep on callling me an extremist, we sorry to dissapoint you, but I am not, I have not called for a "Ayran Race, "Workers of The World Unite", "Jihad" etc

---------- Post added at 14:45 ---------- Previous post was at 14:43 ----------

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

the main one been its anti growth.

---------- Post added at 09:59 ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 ----------



by increase the private sector pay rates?

adding a postcode lottery to job pay in the public sector is bad for growth but I do also agree with the point its bad as well for other reasons already stated such as.

attracting decent staff to poor areas, like good GPs and teachers.
people doing the same work but for different levels of pay based on where they live. I think its more likely to be based on the companys address tho, so it may be possible someone will live in an expensive area but travel to a poor located workplace. So it may force people to move to poorer areas.

So in affect it will make rundown areas even worse and good areas better widening poor/rich gap.

---------- Post added at 10:00 ---------- Previous post was at 09:59 ----------



I think the way they acting now they expecting to not be reelected so as such dont care about their public image and are just pushing through everything the tory donaters want (the rich want).


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people can be easily manipulated when the media backs government.

also proven with the voting referendum.

All this will do is make more people move to London or start rioting outside London, if this keeps going, it will be more than Scotland that starts demanding "freedom" from the UK!

---------- Post added at 14:47 ---------- Previous post was at 14:45 ----------

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

The trouble is that they are unlikely to increase anybodys pay, and it is just a costcutting excercise.

In my profession, if I worked 20 miles down the road I would earn an extra £6000 London weighting. If I worked 10 miles down the road I would earn and extra £550 as fringe London weighting. If I worked in my old home town in West Yorkshire I would earn the same as I do now, but I would be better off due to the cost of living, by anything between £4000 and £6000. The area where I work is an extremely expensive part of the country, yet in real terms we are probably in the worst financial position....but do you think the wages would go up in my area to compensate?....I don't think so.

Remember London has a high cost of living and the wages do not compensate, and they are the highest in the UK!

---------- Post added at 14:48 ---------- Previous post was at 14:47 ----------

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

the variations in the private sector however could also be accounted for different jobs for different companies tho.

with GPs, teachers etc. they working for the same employer doing the same work.

its nothing to do with subsidies but more to do with the private sector changing its priorities from salary levels to profit.

the only reasonings for this policy is probably company owners using their joke of a minister hotlines ringing up to complain their employees want pay rises (how dare they) and its harder to turn them down when the public sector pays better. Also the good old saving money as I suspect there will be a net saving from it.

Its funny how you consider it a subsidy, I wonder how much cash is going to the private sector from the NHS contracts and th high speed rail work.

Also, there are less unionised workers in the private sector then in the public sector!

---------- Post added at 14:50 ---------- Previous post was at 14:48 ----------

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

I used doctors and teachers because their jobs are more or less the same in the private and public sectors. I could also add firefighters and nurses to the list if you want, with the same results. In fact the only direct private comparrison to public sector firefighters would be airport firefighters, who I believe on average earn roughly 25% more.

Many public sector jobs have now gone to private contractors, who make a profit, and then pay very low wages. But this now puts those workers in the private sector.

You have to remember that many statistics are manipulated to fit in with the governments agenda, so don't take them too seriously. An example is how they reduced the number of fire death statistics. Now someone who dies in a fire that was started through arson, is not listed as a fire death, but as a murder. And someone who gets drunk, then passes out leaving their chip pan on, is listed as alocohol related, and not a fire death. Then someone who has a fire, and calls the fire service, but manages to knock the fire down themselves. If there are no visible flames on arrival of the fire service (even if it is still smoldering), this isn't put down as a fire.

There may be exceptions, but in general for long term employment it is well known that public sector jobs pay less. Although during a recession, businesses whos profits are down, may pay lower wages. But this usually changes as the economy improves, and unemployment drops.

By the way, it is illegal to pay men and women different pay rates just based on sex.

Which is why we need radical reform, like more trade union members and more powerful unions!

---------- Post added at 14:50 ---------- Previous post was at 14:50 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

so if the vote goes one way, it's democracy in action - if it goes the other way, it's manipulation.....

How can you explain people voting for a lower standard of living?

Strange, how your comments/answers very rarely relate to what was actually posted - you seem to reply to the statements you think the CF'ers should have posted (or are not related at all), rather than what they actually posted.....

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

Sort of yes!

Don't you remember that the Sun was a tory paper in the 80's, spouting tory propoganda. Then when the tories started to lose popularity, the Sun switched to Labour, spouting Labour propoganda.

Many peole will believe what they read in the papers.

All governments manipulate the press when it suits them. An example is in the fire service pay dispute in 2003. The government put a block on the press reporting anything that put firefighters in a good light. When you think that normally local papers will report on a bin fire. But during the dispute, a 2 year old boy and his mother were rescued from a house fire in Stevenage. They both only just survived by the skin of their teeth, but this didn't even get a mention in the local press.

Maybe the BBC should take control on the newspapers, then the only bias would from the commentators

---------- Post added at 14:59 ---------- Previous post was at 14:58 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

Strange, how your comments/answers very rarely relate to what was actually posted - you seem to reply to the statements you think the CF'ers should have posted (or are not related at all), rather than what they actually posted.....

Still havent answered my question then [COLOR="Silver"]

---------- Post added at 15:06 ---------- Previous post was at 15:02 ----------

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

It's not a legal block. But when a government minister says that they don't want you to report something, then believe me, unless it is a huge news story it would be in the business interest to follow their withes. Otherwise investigations may start into dodgy reporting practices, that may otherwise be ignored.

If it is a big story of national interest, and it came out that the government had tried to hush it up, then the poo could really hit the fan. But with a story about a mother and child being rescued from a fire, then nobody cares if it isn't reported.

And if you don't believe me, then do a bit of research. It was during the pay dispute in 2003 (if I remember right). And see if you can find any story about a mother and a two year old child being saved in Stevenage.

Why can't the Levison investigation deal with this?

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

How can you explain people voting for a lower standard of living?

Common sense - you can't keep spending money you don't have.....

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

How can you explain people voting for a lower standard of living?

Pragmatism, realism.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17335444

Voters in Switzerland have rejected a proposal to give themselves more annual leave in a national referendum.

The plan would have given workers six weeks off a year, but business groups warned about the cost to the economy.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

For god sake, you keep on callling me an extremist,

Sorry but you are, Your twitter page backs that up and your facebook page did as well

[LexDiamond]

It really is amazing how between Tony Blair coming to office and Gordon Brown leaving office that this country forgot how to live within its means.

There are people like Alan that think luxury is a right and doesn't need to be earnt.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by LexDiamond

It really is amazing how between Tony Blair coming to office and Gordon Brown leaving office that this country forgot how to live within its means.

There are people like Alan that think luxury is a right and doesn't need to be earnt.

Some folks don't think.......

[dilli-theclaw]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

<Snip twaddle>

Point one - you ARE an extemest you only have to look at what you post elsewhere and here to prove that.

But what makes me ponder you even more is that you are ALSO (According to what you post here) the type of person you despise the most and would be the first up against the wall when what you advocate happens.

[Osem]

The sad irony of that fact clearly escapes him.

---------- Post added at 17:10 ---------- Previous post was at 17:08 ----------

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

And when the credit fuelled boom hit the buffers everybody has to tighten their belts and pay off the debts. The country is no different. The higher standard of living was an illusion that it was convenient for the previous government to keep going as long as possible. Then when it was clear thet it could not be sustained they resorted to scorched earth tactics and budget time bombs in order to say "I told you so, look at the nasty Torys" when they were rightly kicked in the gonads.

Too true - but conveniently overlooked by so many here who refuse to accept reality.

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

Why can't the Levison investigation deal with this?

Not within the remit of the Inquiry which is about phone hacking/dark arts and the interaction/corruption between the press,government and the police.

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by Sirius

Sorry but you are, Your twitter page backs that up and your facebook page did as well

Alan doesn't think inciting rioting, terrorism, and murder is extreme