netgear router broke OR virgin internet moved goalposts?

zorba · 24-12-2009, 23:21

Had problems last few days. Started on Tuesday, couldn't get onto internet.

I called up Virgin support, 0845 #, chick in India got me to reboot cable modem, also my home router (Netgear WPNT834), both of which I already had tried. No joy. She told me to bypass the Netgear router, stick the cable from the modem strainght into the PC, and I had to change the PC's Local Network config from fixed LAN IP (as demanded by the router) to a DHCP client.

It worked. I got and am still getting internet direct from the cable modem into my PC. Trouble is, that's no good for all our wireless PC's downstairs that relied on the wireless router !!

She then announced that something was wrong with my router (which has worked fine for maybe 2years... but maybe that's the issue - longevity, or lack thereof!) and told me I should be using one supported by Virgin, and tried to put me thru to the sales desk to sell me one for £50.

I declined, sensing a hard-sell and thought I'd do some investigation of my own first. Also I thought I had enuff spare routers lying around between home and office (turns out not, as I'd most of them are ADSL modem routers, not cable routers).

STill can't get the router to pick up the internet - internet light never goes green on it.

Have Virgin done something to the line last few days, so that non-authorised routers won't pick up the signal? or is it more likely that my router is banjaxed (NB the LAN - both fixed and wireless both work fine on it, it just won't pick up the internet from the cable modem)

Another thing could be related is that our IT support company were trying to get my VPN working via this router earlier this week. In the end they said it couldn't be done as it wasn't the right kind of VPN pass thru' router. I dont know much about routers so excuse me if this sounds silly, but could they have somehow changed the config on the router remotely ?

maybe I'll do a factory reset. The WAN settings should be fairly simple to put back in for Virgin - i.e. no login required as it all happens in the modem ?

In meantime, any other help, pls weigh in

- would prefer not to be doing this Xmas eve, but we have become so internet dependant in this house, would prefer to have it back up for everyone over holiday period LOL

Kymmy · 24-12-2009, 23:25

Can I suggest resetting the router to defaults is the way to go, then restarting the modem, then the router, then the PC and see if that works

---------- Post added at 23:25 ---------- Previous post was at 23:23 ----------

As you've proved it's not the modem I've moved this thread to networking

zorba · 24-12-2009, 23:29

Ok, thanks K.

was thinking about posting it there, and then got cold feet - fear of castigation for multi-posting...

resetting now, will report back...

popper · 24-12-2009, 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by zorba

Had problems last few days. Started on Tuesday, couldn't get onto internet.

I called up Virgin support, 0845 #, chick in India got me to reboot cable modem, also my home router (Netgear WPNT834), both of which I already had tried. No joy. She told me to bypass the Netgear router, stick the cable from the modem strainght into the PC, and I had to change the PC's Local Network config from fixed LAN IP (as demanded by the router) to a DHCP client.

It worked. I got and am still getting internet direct from the cable modem into my PC. Trouble is, that's no good for all our wireless PC's downstairs that relied on the wireless router !!

She then announced that something was wrong with my router (which has worked fine for maybe 2years... but maybe that's the issue - longevity, or lack thereof!) and told me I should be using one supported by Virgin, and tried to put me thru to the sales desk to sell me one for £50.

I declined, sensing a hard-sell and thought I'd do some investigation of my own first. Also I thought I had enuff spare routers lying around between home and office (turns out not, as I'd most of them are ADSL modem routers, not cable routers).

STill can't get the router to pick up the internet - internet light never goes green on it.

Have Virgin done something to the line last few days, so that non-authorised routers won't pick up the signal? or is it more likely that my router is banjaxed (NB the LAN - both fixed and wireless both work fine on it, it just won't pick up the internet from the cable modem)

Another thing could be related is that our IT support company were trying to get my VPN working via this router earlier this week. In the end they said it couldn't be done as it wasn't the right kind of VPN pass thru' router. I dont know much about routers so excuse me if this sounds silly, but could they have somehow changed the config on the router remotely ?

maybe I'll do a factory reset. The WAN settings should be fairly simple to put back in for Virgin - i.e. no login required as it all happens in the modem ?

In meantime, any other help, pls weigh in

- would prefer not to be doing this Xmas eve, but we have become so internet dependant in this house, would prefer to have it back up for everyone over holiday period LOL

its wired up
cable<>WAN-in-CM-RJ45-out<>WAN-in-router-LANwhateverNo-out<>other PCs

if your first PC has a second ethernet card fitted or you have an old C&W supplyed USB2 blue Ethernet dongle handy, and you still cant get the WAN part of the router working right, then as a temp thing id wire up the PC with two working ethernet cards to act as the house router.

you do need to keep this MasterPC1 powered and running OC for others to go through it and use it , but thats a small price to pay (assuming your pre pay meter is topped up to last OC) today, tomorrow, and boxing day to keep your family happy i guess

CM-RJ45-out<>Ethernet1-MasterPC1-Ethernet2<> LAN1-in-router-LAN2 etc to other PC's as now.

you can run a liveCD router in a virtualbox configured for these ethernet cards directly, or just do the simple thing and run a simple windows network wizard to turn the CM connected ethernet card on masterPC1 WAN wired into your CM RJ45-out and the other one connected to the working LAN part of the router or an old switch if you have one handy for now, should take you about 10 minutes if you have the ethernet cards and PC already handy...

and everyone would be happier for a few days until you can get something better sorted at least..

zorba · 25-12-2009, 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kymmy

Can I suggest resetting the router to defaults is the way to go, then restarting the modem, then the router, then the PC and see if that works

---------- Post added at 23:25 ---------- Previous post was at 23:23 ----------

As you've proved it's not the modem I've moved this thread to networking

Ok, first time for everything. Reset the router, got stuck with default of 192.168.1.1, but online manual resolved that. Now have a laptop plugged into the router and able to configure router that way.

When I went to config page of router, it detected it was a virgin run of config and put me in a wizard which tried to detect internet type and then came back and said it was STATIC !! (is this correct, always thought these home internets connections were DHCP, or am i stuck in ADSL world...)

Anyways, it then asked me for the static IP, DNS server etc.?
I was clueless about these so came out of that wizard and logged into normal admin. Just about then I noticed the internet LED on the router went a magical green. I found the WAN settings in config. It had:

>Does your internet connection require a login?
NO

>Internet IP address:
USE STATIC IP
>which is?
empty-empty-empty-empty
>subnet?
ditto
>gateway?
ditto

>DNS Server address?
Use these servers
empty
empty

If I try and accept these settings, it complains about all the empty addresses

however, green light is ON, so it can't be all bad

but... couldn't connect to internet from that laptop

OK, so I'm searching for the missing addresses

1)
in router config, went to router status and found these..under internet port
IP = 10.0.0.X (last digit obscured for obvious reasons!)
DHCP=fixed ip
subnet=255.0.0.0
DNS=...

IP looks like a local IP, but then again subnet indicates WAN ... ?

2) plugged cable from cable modem back into PC, ran ipconfig and got:
IP=XX.7.125.ZZZ
subnet=255.255.252.0
gateway=82.7.AAA.1

these look more like what i need
this is what pc is addressed as when connected to the CM and getting internet, so this is presumably what the router should be set to ?

AN interesting experiment would be to cycle the CM and see if the PC still has same or different IP address - then we'll confirm for sure if CM is handing out static or dynamic IP's (well, we will if its different)

any tips, pls fire ahead

---------- Post added at 00:24 ---------- Previous post was at 00:18 ----------

I rebooted the CM, and ran > ipconfig on the pc

all settings are as before, including IP address

COULD still be DHCP and w've just been served the same details as before of course...
but lets try putting these into the router and see what happens...

---------- Post added at 00:28 ---------- Previous post was at 00:24 ----------

@ popper

thanks for your post man!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
its wired up
cable<>WAN-in-CM-RJ45-out<>WAN-in-router-LANwhateverNo-out<>other PCs

if your first PC has a second ethernet card fitted or you have an old C&W supplyed USB2 blue Ethernet dongle handy, and you still cant get the WAN part of the router working right, then as a temp thing id wire up the PC with two working ethernet cards to act as the house router.

you do need to keep this MasterPC1 powered and running OC for others to go through it and use it , but thats a small price to pay (assuming your pre pay meter is topped up to last OC) today, tomorrow, and boxing day to keep your family happy i guess
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

good call IF other pcs were in same room or wirable up, but they aint :-(

trying to getmy head arund yr 2nd section, in between trying these IP's out

---------- Post added at 00:46 ---------- Previous post was at 00:28 ----------

ok neither of those sets of IP address are good for the router...

the first set get accepted, and the green "internet" LED stays on, but cna't get internet in the browser

the second set don't even pass validation as there is no default gateway.....

---------- Post added at 00:55 ---------- Previous post was at 00:46 ----------

@ popper

>> CM-RJ45-out<>Ethernet1-MasterPC1-Ethernet2<> LAN1-in-router-LAN2 etc to other PC's as now.

Ok, so now we're using the PC as a router and the router as a switch?

looking at this and your first section again, it COULD have worked, using the WIRELESS function of the router to serve the other PCs I guess, so sorry if first reaction seemed harsh ;-)
But, and big but, only one ethernet on that PC. There IS a wireless card though, but missing presumed dead (never use it, can't remember why but probably a reason - mind you I noticed a green LED flashing on it last time i was round back of pc, so maybe some life there?)

>> you can run a liveCD router in a virtualbox configured for these ethernet cards directly, or just do the simple thing and run a simple windows network wizard to turn the CM connected ethernet card on masterPC1 WAN wired into your CM RJ45-out and the other one connected to the working LAN part of the router or an old switch if you have one handy for now, should take you about 10 minutes if you have the ethernet cards and PC already handy...

you lost me wiht "liveCD router in a virtualbox" but I think I understand the other simple option - is this what is called creating a bridge ? (dim and distant memory of doing something like this before, to get a open source s/w VPN to work). OC = over christmas, presumably?

anyways happy xmas folks, hope santa rewards your generousity tonight ;-)
__________________

popper · 25-12-2009, 01:36

"good call IF other pcs were in same room or wirable up, but they aint :-(
"

dont get it?, if they worked before, they will work in that masterPC1 config too... all your doing is replacing the little router with a masterPC1 all the LAn parts should be the same, other than disabling the routers DHCP and using the windows PC networking DHCP instead....

but lets move on as you have a green light on the router WAN now and that should be good.

right , so your directly connected LT is getting a valid WAN Ip in the same range as the 82.7.somethng.something your now seeing on the routers page, thats good.

is there a page on the router were you can enter a ping command, pinging http://www.cableforum.co.uk from the router page proves its got a working VM IP from the internal DHCP of the CM, and the routers set for auto DHCP on the WAN port yes!

if the ping from the router page works but the LT ping to the same doesnt , then its likely a LAN setting thats wrong, not the VM WAN part, and thats OK for now.

if the router ping fails on the URL but works on ping 87.106.245.143 then its still good But the VM DNS are not being filled in automaticly, but thats not likely, so do both to be sure from the router page if it exists in your router device.

next you say the LAN part, remember that seperate to the WAN part, is getting or rather is set to give out an auto IP = 10.0.0.X (last digit obscured for obvious reasons!) range to the PC's.

you dont need to obscore the local LAN addresses as noone but You can access them as their behind the NAT of the router.

so it seems right now the router is getting a valid CM WAN Ip of 82.7.something.something and your LAN part of the router is trying to give out Ip ranges in the 10.0.0. range, were the PCs Ips in that same range before or a 192.168.1. range perhaps.

if not, then theres a little messing perhaps later, if your PCs are currently set for static IPs right now, they may need to be changed to auto IP or set the old range and I no they used already on the routers LAN pages, but lets get one LT working through the router for now.

rember theres two distinct parts to this, one the WAN side ofthe router were it needs to be set to auto DHCP to get its Ip DNS and mask from the CM.

and the second part were all the PC on the house LAN side get all their IPs and default route etc from the routers settings, its a chain, one part does not effect the other.

the CM has its one time DHCP server to give the connected device its valid IP,DNS,and mask etc, in this case your directly connected device, the LT when you connect this direct and power cycle the CM and PC.

OR the router when thats the first device inline and after power cycling the CM and then router...

the router have its own seperate local DHCP server to give the connected devices ON the LAN house side their valid IP,DNS,and mask etc.

the House PCs weather connected wired or wirelessly only really care about the router LAN side settings they get given.

the router cares about the right WAN settings its auto given by the CM, and the LAN things its asked to pass along as a totally seperate thing if that makes sense, how you doing, getting anywere!

---------- Post added at 01:36 ---------- Previous post was at 01:07 ----------

if your not getting anywere, do you have a spare PC? i'll call it 'masterpc1' with windows installed and two working ethernet cards, then you can try that option too...

just pull the router (your going to move it down the chain, disable its internal DHCP server and only use its LAN side ports, No WAN bit) and replace it with the PC plug one ethernet into the CM and one into the routers LAN port1, or use a spare dumb switch in its place as it is simpler if you have one in this masterPC1 as router mode, set the routers DHCP to off and run the MasterPC1 windows network wizard, picking the right ethernet card thats connected to the CM as your WAN connection, and the other as your LAN connection.

but times getting on and its been 30+ minutes waiting for a reply so im off soon as i dont like wasting my time, especially today.

CM<>masterPC1<>Dumb-switch<>other wired PCs on the house LAN

or CM<>MasterPC1<>(wireless)router-DHCP-Off<>other wired/wireless PCs on the house LAN

zorba · 25-12-2009, 12:07

Quote: