Unstoppable migration?

[Osem]

Police in Italy believe traffickers made some $3m (£1.9m; €2.5m) from 359 illegal migrants found abandoned on a cargo ship in the Mediterranean.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30669136

With profits like that to be made and zero risk of being caught and punished, I think we can expect more of the same since the traffickers aren't interested in the welfare, status or intentions of those they're transporting. Anyone who pays the price can be a refugee and seek asylum whilst the most needy are left behind.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Osem

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30669136

Anyone who pays the price can be a refugee and seek asylum whilst the most needy are left behind.

It's always been the case, those in the most danger are generally the poorest with no means of escaping, those that escape are the ones with the necessary wealth to enable them to do so.

Accepting them as refugees and giving them asylum gives the liberal type a feeling that they have done some good for those poor persecuted people, whilst chosing not to think of the ones that are in real danger

I think all this asylum from countries with problems and free movement in europe from poor to better off countries for financial reasons has to stop. If it remains uncontrolled we will end up with the better off countries overcrowded and dragged down coping with the financial strain. On the other hand the countries that these people are fleeing from will have less demand on resources and in time may become the richer countries. I wonder if the cycle will turn if we look far enough into the future.

[Taf]

Czechs who came here told me that they can't go back because their old homes and jobs are now full of Romanians and Bulgarians. Plus EU tax rules have meant a large increase in the cost of living whilst wages have stagnated for years.

So it looks like the population of Europe is slowly drifting westwards, leaving a vacuum in the east. Who will move in there I wonder?

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Taf

Czechs who came here told me that they can't go back because their old homes and jobs are now full of Romanians and Bulgarians. Plus EU tax rules have meant a large increase in the cost of living whilst wages have stagnated for years.

So it looks like the population of Europe is slowly drifting westwards, leaving a vacuum in the east. Who will move in there I wonder?

Maybe the Blairs will want to extend their property portfolio. It'd be fitting for them to be able to benefit from the situation Teflon Tone helped to bring about.

---------- Post added at 16:30 ---------- Previous post was at 16:27 ----------

Originally Posted by Escapee

It's always been the case, those in the most danger are generally the poorest with no means of escaping, those that escape are the ones with the necessary wealth to enable them to do so.

Accepting them as refugees and giving them asylum gives the liberal type a feeling that they have done some good for those poor persecuted people, whilst chosing not to think of the ones that are in real danger

I think all this asylum from countries with problems and free movement in europe from poor to better off countries for financial reasons has to stop. If it remains uncontrolled we will end up with the better off countries overcrowded and dragged down coping with the financial strain. On the other hand the countries that these people are fleeing from will have less demand on resources and in time may become the richer countries. I wonder if the cycle will turn if we look far enough into the future.

[Taf]

New restrictions on Syrians entering Lebanon come into force on Monday, further tightening the flow of asylum seekers trying to escape the war.

There are some 1.1 million officially registered Syrian refugees in Lebanon, perhaps another half a million Syrians who are not registered.

So one in three of the population of this tiny, fragile country is a Syrian. It's as if more than 20 million refugees arrived in Britain.

In Lebanon, rents are up, wages are down, and refugee families are living 10 or 15 people to a room, or in makeshift camps in the mud and snow.

Resentment against Syrians is increasing. Some towns and villages have imposed curfews on the new arrivals, enforced by vigilante groups. Above all, many Lebanese fear the country's religious and sectarian balance is being altered in a way that will eventually trigger a renewed civil war here.

So where will they all head for now?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-30657003

[richard s]

Originally Posted by taf

czechs who came here told me that they can't go back because their old homes and jobs are now full of romanians and bulgarians. Plus eu tax rules have meant a large increase in the cost of living whilst wages have stagnated for years.

so it looks like the population of europe is slowly drifting westwards, leaving a vacuum in the east. Who will move in there i wonder?

the ruskies!

[Osem]

The UN refugee agency says not enough is being done to save the lives of the increased numbers of migrants trying to cross the Mediterranean to Europe.

A UNHCR spokesman told the BBC around 400 migrants were still missing after their boat capsized off Libya.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-32314263

More deaths at the hands of traffickers.

I'm still waiting for some clear answers from our glorious leaders as to what we do about all this. Do we carry on picking up bodies and boat loads of refugees or do we try to prevent them from coming? Do we restrict our humanitarian efforts to those refugees/migrants who've managed to travel to places like Libya or do we intervene elsewhere? That's clearly not been the choice made by the west in Syria, Libya etc. has it - no will to get in there and sort things out.

There are millions of people suffering poverty, oppression and worse around the globe, what do we do to help them or does it just make us feel a bit better dragging boatloads of migrants ashore and leaving the rest to their fate whether that be drowning in the Med. or being slaughtered in Syria?

[heero_yuy]

By all means rescue them but take them back to their embarkation point and ensure the boat is scuttled so it cannot be used again. Bringing then to Italy just intensifies the pull factor.

Europe simply cannot absorb the fleeing millions from the middle East conflicts without domestic strife.

[Osem]

Whilst people believe or even delude themselves that a better life in the west can be had via people traffickers the flow will not stop. Genuine desperation and fear must play a big part, however, so for those who are genuinely fleeing war zones etc., we should do what we can to provide humanitarian relief as close to their homes as possible, then help them to rebuild their lives as we had to do in Europe after WWII. It's very easy to overlook the fact that there are countless millions of people suffering around the world and suggesting that we can somehow assimilate them all is naïve. Social unrest is already spreading in places where there have been large influxes of refugees/migrants and it will only get worse as the numbers grow and pressure builds on services etc. That's the rather unpleasant reality of the situation we're in and toppling the dictators who kept a lid on so much of this has proved a huge mistake.

[Taf]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

By all means rescue them but take them back to their embarkation point and ensure the boat is scuttled so it cannot be used again. Bringing then to Italy just intensifies the pull factor.

Europe simply cannot absorb the fleeing millions from the middle East conflicts without domestic strife.

And not just those fleeing, there are doubtless some amongst them who do not wish us well in Europe.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Taf

And not just those fleeing, there are doubtless some amongst them who do not wish us well in Europe.

That is very true. It may well be a very small proportion who're a risk but we have no idea who most of these people are, what their backgrounds are and what dangers they may pose.

[Osem]

Anyone who doubts the scale of this problem ought to consider that the Italian authorities have rescued 10,000 refugees in the last week alone. The numbers are increasing rapidly it seems.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/0...192547203.html

Meanwhile in the UK:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32324110

Three asylum seekers who fled Syria but were jailed after arriving in the UK without passports have been told they can appeal against their convictions.

The men arrived at Heathrow Airport at different times in 2013, saying they had received threats while in Syria.

However, they were arrested for failing to have travel documents and jailed for between eight weeks and four months.

Maybe I'm missing something buit if people have come here with no proper ID documentation then how the hell do we know who they are let along whether their claims are true? Doesn't this rather make a mockery of our supposedly 'secure' borders?

[tweetiepooh]

If you have the right travel documents you likely don't need the traffickers and likely are not fleeing for simple financial reasons. In too many of the source countries you need to be able to pay bribes as well as fees to get the documents in the first place. If you can afford that you probably can afford flights/transport and more likely will be skilled or wealthy so more welcome in the host nation.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

If you have the right travel documents you likely don't need the traffickers and likely are not fleeing for simple financial reasons. In too many of the source countries you need to be able to pay bribes as well as fees to get the documents in the first place. If you can afford that you probably can afford flights/transport and more likely will be skilled or wealthy so more welcome in the host nation.

My partner was able to flee a country at a young age where she was in danger from an oppressive government. When it comes to sympathy for asylum seekers she's not the most sympathetic to put it mildly. She came from a family with enough wealth to enable her to leave the country, and she is aware that those who were in more danger than her were not in a position to leave.

I think those that make a well intentioned fuss about helping asylum seekers often ignore the reality that the real victims remain and suffer.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Escapee

My partner was able to flee a country at a young age where she was in danger from an oppressive government. When it comes to sympathy for asylum seekers she's not the most sympathetic to put it mildly. She came from a family with enough wealth to enable her to leave the country, and she is aware that those who were in more danger than her were not in a position to leave.

I think those that make a well intentioned fuss about helping asylum seekers often ignore the reality that the real victims remain and suffer.

That's an inconvenient truth.

Well it wasn't going to be too long before this happened:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32337725

Italian police say they have arrested 15 Muslim migrants after they allegedly threw 12 Christians overboard following a row on a boat headed to Italy.

The Christian migrants, said to be from Ghana and Nigeria, are all feared dead.

Are we going to give asylum to people like this?
How many of these refugees harbour such extreme hatred whether Muslim, Christian or anything else?
Where they do it's going to be the same where these people are dispersed to isn't it? Longstanding hatred and rivalries imported into Europe from around the globe in the name of asylum. Somebody needs to get a grip on what's happening.

Where migrants have the financial means to leave their countries because they want a better way of life in Europe, should we have an obligation to offer them asylum?