TiVo

[Andy C]

Originally Posted by pauldavies83

The £200 upfront charge is buying the equipment in for Virgin for them to then rent to you, plain and simple. When you rent a TV, or lease a car, your not paying the company up front for it for them to buy it and then paying the rental on it as well. They buy their asset, and then you pay the rental to them.

To buy the box in a high street store, if you could, would probably cost around £500+. Virgin don't just need to recoup the box manufacturing costs but also the cost of the TiVo license and development. Virgin wont be makng any money for a long time.

A car rental company just buys in a fleet of cars and rents them, they haven't had the car custom built for them and bought a license to use a certain interior and had it custom designed and developed.

VM do not require you to have TiVo, it's currently a premium service so if you don't want to pay for it do without.


A.

---------- Post added at 15:31 ---------- Previous post was at 13:39 ----------

Originally Posted by WooLLsterQ

Called Staff packs today and was informed the next roll out after the "Tivo 500" we be a second batch of 500 units only again to staff and it will be early to mid January!!

I would of thought some of the people who have been long time beta field testers for the current boxes may have got a look in for an early install also, but I guess not. It's not just staff that sell products, customers/testers do also. Hell if the box was sat under my TV there would at least 10 people switching from Sky tomorrow! People are still impressed by my Series 1 TiVo...


Andy.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by pauldavies83

I really don't agree with this "free service engineers" line - lets face it, you should be getting free service engineers regardless. We shouldn't be slapping Virgin on the back and saying "well done" for this.

The customer is paying a subscription to watch a TV service - if the equipment Virgin insist you use to receive this subscription doesn't work, I'd expect it was repaired without charge! Otherwise you would be paying for something you couldn't access.

The £200 upfront charge is buying the equipment in for Virgin for them to then rent to you, plain and simple. When you rent a TV, or lease a car, your not paying the company up front for it for them to buy it and then paying the rental on it as well. They buy their asset, and then you pay the rental to them.

So Virgin seem to want it both ways. Good luck to them - best of both worlds for them and their business model

PS we all know Sky try to con you out of ~£60 to send a service engineer out - doesn't mean people pay it. I know people who have had multiple service visits free of charge.

Tell me. With Sky, are you free to use your own equipment (AFAIK you are)? Also, whether you use Sky branded or your own equipment, can you get it repaired for free when it's out of warranty?

Legitimatly. IE without having to threaten to leave.

[pauldavies83]

Originally Posted by Stuart

Tell me. With Sky, are you free to use your own equipment (AFAIK you are)? Also, whether you use Sky branded or your own equipment, can you get it repaired for free when it's out of warranty?

Legitimatly. IE without having to threaten to leave.

You can source your own equipment - I believe by the letter of Sky's T&C's it has to be Sky branded, as their branded equipment is the only equipment that supports their encryption system. You are free to obtain it from anywhere (i.e. eBay) and they will configure your viewing card accordingly.

If you supply your own box, they aren't going to repair it.

---------- Post added at 18:45 ---------- Previous post was at 18:39 ----------

Originally Posted by Andy C

To buy the box in a high street store, if you could, would probably cost around £500+. Virgin don't just need to recoup the box manufacturing costs but also the cost of the TiVo license and development. Virgin wont be makng any money for a long time.

There is no way they would sell such a box for £500 - it would have to compete in its marketplace.

You can get dual-tuner PVR's for less than £200 - how would they get away with charging ~£300 more for similar hardware?

Originally Posted by Andy C

A car rental company just buys in a fleet of cars and rents them, they haven't had the car custom built for them and bought a license to use a certain interior and had it custom designed and developed.

I'm willing to bet nothing in the box Cisco has manufactured is proprietary - it will be off the shelf components that have been assembled for VM in this instance, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the same hardware making its way into other global cable provider's stock (albeit more than likely in a more generic casing).

Originally Posted by Andy C

VM do not require you to have TiVo, it's currently a premium service so if you don't want to pay for it do without.

Given the quality of the V+ service, maybe they do require people to have TiVo? And maybe VM are relying on this? Otherwise, why has the V+ not seen any reasonable improvement (especially in performance) for years. As I have stated before, I had one of the original TiVo's, and at a reasonable price given the age of the technology I'll be more than happy to finally ditch the V+ and have one again - here's hoping the existing customer price is a lot more reasonable as has been winked at.

---------- Post added at 18:49 ---------- Previous post was at 18:45 ----------

Originally Posted by ahardie

All your negative posts tend to suggest that you dont think it is worth having a tivo box anyway so you are perhaps not the best to judge whether the price is worth it.

Not at all, i've had a TiVo before and I'd absolutely love one again - if it wasn't for the dual-tuner and the very good deal we got from Sky on Sky+ I'd probably still be using my Series 1 TiVo now (providing I had it and it still worked). My negativity is aimed at the spin that is being put on this "revolutionary new product", that sans a few changes is 10 years old, yet is being priced not far away from what it was 10 years ago when it first arrived. Technology prices drop over time, not stagnate.

Originally Posted by ahardie

Personally I do think from what I have read that it is worth paying extra for tivo and a 1Tb drive

Personally, I think the only reason to have a 1TB drive is HD - and you've already paid the company for HD, so surely they can allow you the ability to record what you have already paid for? And 1TB drives can be had for peanuts to consumers, let alone trade. The £200 wouldn't suddenly become < £100 by halving the drive capacity, as the cost difference between the two drives would be negligible.

---------- Post added at 18:52 ---------- Previous post was at 18:49 ----------

Originally Posted by Masque

You pays your money you make your choice, it is down to you if you want the latest piece of kit or not as SKY will not have TiVo.

Thanks for the constructive addition to the discussion. I do "pays my money" and will make my choice - at £200 it will be a no.

[grimwau]

If you pay £200 up front for the box do you still get charged for it ob the monthly bill?

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by pauldavies83

You can source your own equipment - I believe by the letter of Sky's T&C's it has to be Sky branded, as their branded equipment is the only equipment that supports their encryption system. You are free to obtain it from anywhere (i.e. eBay) and they will configure your viewing card accordingly.

If you supply your own box, they aren't going to repair it.

---------- Post added at 18:45 ---------- Previous post was at 18:39 ----------



There is no way they would sell such a box for £500 - it would have to compete in its marketplace.

You can get dual-tuner PVR's for less than £200 - how would they get away with charging ~£300 more for similar hardware?



I'm willing to bet nothing in the box Cisco has manufactured is proprietary - it will be off the shelf components that have been assembled for VM in this instance, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the same hardware making its way into other global cable provider's stock (albeit more than likely in a more generic casing).



Given the quality of the V+ service, maybe they do require people to have TiVo? And maybe VM are relying on this? Otherwise, why has the V+ not seen any reasonable improvement (especially in performance) for years. As I have stated before, I had one of the original TiVo's, and at a reasonable price given the age of the technology I'll be more than happy to finally ditch the V+ and have one again - here's hoping the existing customer price is a lot more reasonable as has been winked at.

---------- Post added at 18:49 ---------- Previous post was at 18:45 ----------



Not at all, i've had a TiVo before and I'd absolutely love one again - if it wasn't for the dual-tuner and the very good deal we got from Sky on Sky+ I'd probably still be using my Series 1 TiVo now (providing I had it and it still worked). My negativity is aimed at the spin that is being put on this "revolutionary new product", that sans a few changes is 10 years old, yet is being priced not far away from what it was 10 years ago when it first arrived. Technology prices drop over time, not stagnate.



Personally, I think the only reason to have a 1TB drive is HD - and you've already paid the company for HD, so surely they can allow you the ability to record what you have already paid for? And 1TB drives can be had for peanuts to consumers, let alone trade. The £200 wouldn't suddenly become < £100 by halving the drive capacity, as the cost difference between the two drives would be negligible.





Thanks for the constructive addition to the discussion. I do "pays my money" and will make my choice - at £200 it will be a no.

None of this really matters as only Virginmedia have rights to the TiVo in the UK and many people will go for it as £200 is not a great deal for such kit.

No amount of trying to compare prices of components matter either as it has to work as a TiVo and it has to be added to your account and paired with a viewing card and this can only happen with products supplied by Virginmedia and in their inventory.

As I said in the earlier post "If you want it then you will happily pay the price asked for the kit" if not stick with your 2 tuner SKY box.

---------- Post added at 19:00 ---------- Previous post was at 19:00 ----------

Originally Posted by grimwau

If you pay £200 up front for the box do you still get charged for it ob the monthly bill?

They usually just add the cost onto your next bill.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by Masque

They usually just add the cost onto your next bill.

Not for that amount that won't

It will likely be payment at order

[Andy C]

Originally Posted by pauldavies83

There is no way they would sell such a box for £500 - it would have to compete in its marketplace.

You can get dual-tuner PVR's for less than £200 - how would they get away with charging ~£300 more for similar hardware?

As you've owned a TiVo before do you not think it does so much more than existing Freeview PVRs? Even the UI is better than anything on any current box I've used. I still use my Series 1 TiVo with a Freeview box and although it's only single tuner, the software can compensate for it (providing there's a repeat).

It also depends on the manufacturer... yes there are cheap Freeview dual-tuner PVRs for under £200, but the FreeviewHD box from Panasonic is £500... which again the VM TiVo will blow away both feature, UI and storage wise (it only has a 250GB HDD).


Andy.

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Not for that amount that won't

It will likely be payment at order

Good to know Ben.

[muppetman11]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Not for that amount that won't

It will likely be payment at order

Bring it on when will I get my phone call LOL

[Digital Fanatic]

I think that everyone should think of the upfront £199 (or less ) as a downpayment to keep your monthly sub for TiVo low.

VM have to pay for the equipment and the upkeep/replace and repair. They are a business and as such need to make money. They aren't getting the boxes/TiVo software for free

[jb66]

Maybe virgin could let you buy it for £499 and offer no support after 1 year, also the customer can keep it if they leave but virgin to use as a doorstop!

[VirginMediaPhil]

I think I'll just wait for the £200 price to be dropped.

[jb66]

Give it a year there will be offers eventually

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by pauldavies83

You can source your own equipment - I believe by the letter of Sky's T&C's it has to be Sky branded, as their branded equipment is the only equipment that supports their encryption system. You are free to obtain it from anywhere (i.e. eBay) and they will configure your viewing card accordingly.

If you supply your own box, they aren't going to repair it.[COLOR="Silver"]

Which is actually my point. With VM, you do pay, but repairs are included as long as you are subscribed to the service. With Sky, you have the upfront cost of the box. You also pay a subscription for the service, but you do *not* get free repairs beyond the warranty.

Originally Posted by pauldavies83

Personally, I think the only reason to have a 1TB drive is HD - and you've already paid the company for HD, so surely they can allow you the ability to record what you have already paid for? And 1TB drives can be had for peanuts to consumers, let alone trade. The £200 wouldn't suddenly become < £100 by halving the drive capacity, as the cost difference between the two drives would be negligible.

I don't get your point here at all. Are Sky giving away 1TB boxes? I dont think so and they are the ones charging £10 per month extra for HD.