Operation Yewtree

Originally Posted by danielf

Tell me how that differs from the massive abuse cases in the Catholic Church.
.

Big difference ,the children abused by catholic priests where bought to believe that the priest was authority ,what he said goes and you don't question him ,even adults rarely questioned his authority .Jimmy Savile was never that powerful and it confuses meas to how anyone thought he was he was a tv presenter and that is all

I'm not going to pretend I have answers to all your questions, but it seems to me that if you take all the evidence together, then even accounting for the fact that rumours are just rumours, there is a very compelling case for concluding that Savile was a rapist and a paedophile. In fact I would argue that we need to have a very serious look at what made it possible for him to get away with it for so long.

If these rumors prove to be true then that is what must happen and those guilty of not saying anything must be punished

---------- Post added at 18:13 ---------- Previous post was at 18:10 ----------

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

Hi Danielf, I totally agree with what you are saying, however the comment made by martyh, people are ashamed to come forward and all the stick that they will take.

If Sir Jim was alive today, would they have come forward, no they would not as the qoute would be is ' who do you beleive, l am a big name' that answers your question.

As this thread proves beyond doubt ,people are more than willing to believe rumors about big names however unsubstantiated they are

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by martyh

Jimmy Savile was never that powerful and it confuses meas to how anyone thought he was he was a tv presenter and that is all

To them, and at that time. he was.

---------- Post added at 18:17 ---------- Previous post was at 18:14 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

As this thread proves beyond doubt ,people are more than willing to believe rumors about big names however unsubstantiated they are

Did Jim fix it for you or something?

If he was alive today and all this was out. would you allow people to have an opinion then?

[colin25]

Originally Posted by martyh

Big difference ,the children abused by catholic priests where bought to believe that the priest was authority ,what he said goes and you don't question him ,even adults rarely questioned his authority .Jimmy Savile was never that powerful and it confuses meas to how anyone thought he was he was a tv presenter and that is all



If these rumors prove to be true then that is what must happen and those guilty of not saying anything must be punished

---------- Post added at 18:13 ---------- Previous post was at 18:10 ----------



As this thread proves beyond doubt ,people are more than willing to believe rumors about big names however unsubstantiated they are

I don't think savile was a saint, and I don't think because someone is dead, that exonerates them from criticism. From what i have seen of the show, there is enough for me to form an opinion.

Originally Posted by Gary L

To them, and at that time. he was.

---------- Post added at 18:17 ---------- Previous post was at 18:14 ----------



Did Jim fix it for you or something?

If he was alive today and all this was out. would you allow people to have an opinion then?

Who said people couldn't have an opinion ?

Why has this all come out now and not when he died ,why are none of the women worried or ashamed now but they where when he was 80yrs old .I am deeply suspicious of sudden claims like this ,they may prove to be true but i will never take the default stance of he is guilty because a few women say so after no end of opportunity to out him in the past few decades

[danielf]

Originally Posted by martyh

Who said people couldn't have an opinion ?

Why has this all come out now and not when he died ,why are none of the women worried or ashamed now but they where when he was 80yrs old .I am deeply suspicious of sudden claims like this ,they may prove to be true but i will never take the default stance of he is guilty because a few women say so after no end of opportunity to out him in the past few decades

As I said earlier, that was my opinion until a few days ago. I liked the idea of eccentric philanthropist. Then I started reading up on him. There's so much unsavoury stuff about him out there, and much of it is there in his own words, that I've come to the conclusion that it's quite likely that the claims are true.

[colin25]

Originally Posted by martyh

Who said people couldn't have an opinion ?

Why has this all come out now and not when he died ,why are none of the women worried or ashamed now but they where when he was 80yrs old .I am deeply suspicious of sudden claims like this ,they may prove to be true but i will never take the default stance of he is guilty because a few women say so after no end of opportunity to out him in the past few decades

Your opinion, my opinion, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

Though I don't view it coming out now as suspicious. I have more suspicion about the motives and innocence of those in power or positions of authority who claim they knew nothing.

Lots of instances of things coming out after the fact...time does not heal all, or expunge all.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by danielf

Yes, I'm well aware of that. Which is why, when I started reading up on him, I took the rumours and allegations as just that, and was highly skeptical of the rumours. However it quickly dawned on me, in no small part through Savile's own remarks, it was actually highly likely that the rumours were true. In a way, Savile's own remarks and writings are even more damning than the rumours:



On camera, to Louis Theroux, when asked 'why he hated children'.



On camera, to Louis Theroux




Savile's contribution (Entitled 'The Eleventh Commandment') to a 1991 charity book entitled, Over 500 Trouble-Saving Ideas From The Famous, The Efficient and The Wise.

According to Phil Dampier


And there's a lot more if we take what others claim he's said into consideration. Couple that with the fact that (so far) 10 women claim to have been assaulted by him, and it's time to wake up and smell the coffee.

'Sir Jimmy Saville' in all likelihood was a serial rapist and Paedophile, and we've probably only scratched the surface of what he's been up to.

Oh that's alright then, as long as you have thoroughly researched it then.

Originally Posted by danielf

As I said earlier, that was my opinion until a few days ago. I liked the idea of eccentric philanthropist. Then I started reading up on him. There's so much unsavoury stuff about him out there, and much of it is there in his own words, that I've come to the conclusion that it's quite likely that the claims are true.

My opinion is that if the allegations are true then then as stated we need to hunt out those who knew and did nothing

If they prove to be false then we need to look at how women can get away with such acusations and make sure they don't because any false allegation of rape or abuse sets back all the hard work done by people to make sure that abusers are caught and children tell people

[colin25]

Originally Posted by martyh

My opinion is that if the allegations are true then then as stated we need to hunt out those who knew and did nothing

If they prove to be false then we need to look at how women can get away with such acusations and make sure they don't because any false allegation of rape or abuse sets back all the hard work done by people to make sure that abusers are caught and children tell people

Just our differences of opinions. I don't automatically think it is false allegations. But agree if it is (however unlikely that different people suddenly had mass hysteria)

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by martyh

If they prove to be false then we need to look at how women can get away with such acusations and make sure they don't because any false allegation of rape or abuse sets back all the hard work done by people to make sure that abusers are caught and children tell people

What if anything will change your view on whether it's true or not?

in your opinion do you think at least one of the victims is telling the truth?

[peanut]

The lack of defence on his part from those that were close to him speaks volumes to me. If it was all untrue and they knew for certain then they'd be shouting it from the roof tops. But so far there's been nothing.

Too much has been said now, his name and reputation will never be cleared.

Originally Posted by Gary L

What if anything will change your view on whether it's true or not?

evidence that can be corroborated

in your opinion do you think at least one of the victims is telling the truth?

couldn't possibly say without any of the above

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by martyh

couldn't possibly say without any of the above

Of course you can.

[Sparkle]

Originally Posted by peanut

The lack of defence on his part from those that were close to him speaks volumes to me. If it was all untrue and they knew for certain then they'd be shouting it from the roof tops. But so far there's been nothing.

Have a gander on the comments section of just about any Jimmy Savile video on youtube just now, and you'll see what happens to anyone who disagrees with the majority opinion there...Even though the evidence hasn't even been heard, anyone who speaks out is getting lynched in short order.
I don't think anyone not wanting to be labelled a paedo themselves, will be speaking out in Jimmy's defense at least not until the initial frenzied momentum has run its course.

Yes why hasn't there been a rush from all those close to him oh wait we have a bandwagon rolling that says he was a paedophile and no way to disprove it yes why arn't they coming out to get shot down by those happy to believe on the flimsiest evidence. Is this really how low we have sunk, is it that all that is needed to ruin a persons reputation is unsubstantiated allegation\rumour. For all those who now believe he was this evil predaatory paedophile can i just ask you this would you be happy to be judged on the same level of evidence we have in this case of course you wouldn't and no one should be saying anything about this until we have more credible evidence.

Just becaause someone shouts abuse doesn't automatically put them in the right or even make what they are saying right sadly we have a lot of people in the UK with mental health issues and more sadly it is quite common for some of those people to make up scenario's involving public figures. I am not saying for a certainty he is innocent although my personal experience of the man makes it very hard for me to believe all this. What i am saying is right now we have sod all solid credible evidence that anything at all went on outside the imaginations of a group of people and we can never allow that to be enough to tarnish anyones name we have to set the bar hiugher then that.

If we do not it will keep getting lower until the slightest thing is enough stop it now demand evidence, demand a proper investigation and only then make your choice on innocence or guilt do not lower yourselves by doing it on what we have right now.