Eurozone will collapse... - Page 103

**Hugh** · 27-01-2015, 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by richard s

The rich Greeks have not been paying their fair share of taxes or non at all to help their own country (also corruption), yet when the EU helps them out (though severe austerity is being suffered) they turn on the hand that tries to help them.

I believe that Europe will only get stronger.

Not just the 'rich' - the middle classes / small business owners have been doing their fair share of avoidance as well....

heero_yuy · 27-01-2015, 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

Not just the 'rich' - the middle classes / small business owners have been doing their fair share of avoidance as well....

IIRC The public sector was also paying 14 months wages for 12 months work.

**Chris** · 27-01-2015, 13:58

It is a very long-term problem in Greece, and a problem which the Euro and its accompanying low interest rates did nothing to discourage. Quite the opposite, in fact.

It's hard medicine but default, reinstatement of the Drachma and then rebuilding the Greek economy from the ground up is the only real solution. Greece is an important tourist destination and holidays denominated in Drachmas would be highly desirable. I'd certainly be tempted.

Osem · 27-01-2015, 14:14

Well I hope the Greeks don't have inflated expectations of what's possible. Altering the terms of their debt. is one thing but the fact remains that unless they remove themselves from the straightjacket which exacerbated their problems, they'll still be wearing it. After so much pain followed by terrific hope surrounding this election, I hope that we don't see widespread social unrest if the people don't get what they believe they've voted for and soon...

richard s · 27-01-2015, 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osem

Their precious, irreversible and unassailable vanity project which they refuse to compromise on. The only voices these people really listen to are their own and those which toe the line - those with the temerity to disagree are treated with contempt and asked again until they give the right answer. We can disagree about the rights and wrongs of the EU but IMHO there's not much doubt about the inevitable outcome when a group of blinkered and uncompromising politicians acquire too much power and it isn't pretty...

UK comes to mind.

Ignitionnet · 27-01-2015, 15:41

An enlightening interview with Syriza's finance man.

**Damien** · 27-01-2015, 16:30

As I understand they want to end austerity, spend more (to stimulate the economy) and stay in the Euro. Seems a hard ask.

Ignitionnet · 27-01-2015, 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

As I understand they want to end austerity, spend more (to stimulate the economy) and stay in the Euro. Seems a hard ask.

Alongside extensive structural reform, which is the key thing Greece needs.

Regrettably the 'German prescription' was forced down their throats first.

Osem · 27-01-2015, 16:58

Of course, some of us pointed out the realities of trying to 'unite' economies as diverse as Germany and Greece but were summarily dismissed as little Englanders, Europhobes and loonies. I know who's looking more like lunatics now...

Osem · 30-01-2015, 22:02

So the war of words hots up:

Quote:

Greece's new left-wing finance minister says his government will not negotiate over the Greek bailout conditions with the "troika" team from the EU and IMF.

Yanis Varoufakis said he was rather seeking direct talks with eurozone leaders, to try to cancel more than half the money Greece owes...

... In Berlin, German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble said the Greeks should abide by their commitments, adding: "There's no arguing with us about this and, what's more, we are difficult to blackmail."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31055069

**Chris** · 30-01-2015, 22:30

It's now a massive game of chicken. Who will swerve first? Or are they both so confident the other will move, that they're heading for a head-on collision?

heero_yuy · 31-01-2015, 09:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

It's now a massive game of chicken. Who will swerve first? Or are they both so confident the other will move, that they're heading for a head-on collision?

Or maybe two rabbits paralysed by fear of what will happen as the headlights of the crisis bear down on them.

Osem · 31-01-2015, 12:06

... And just in case anyone's in any doubt:

Quote:

German Chancellor Angela Merkel has ruled out cancelling any of Greece's debt, saying banks and creditors have already made substantial cuts.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31072321

But in Spain some folks are hoping they'll be able to write off debts too...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31072139

Quote:

Podemos has surged into the lead in recent opinion polls, and says it will seek to write off part of Spain's debt if it wins elections later this year.

Podemos says politicians should "serve the people, not private interests".

Couldn't see this happening at all...

It always struck me that whilst EU 'investment/bribes' to member states could keep things artificially sweet when times were good, it wouldn't take long for all that to unravel when life got a bit tougher and economic realities came home to roost.

Ignitionnet · 31-01-2015, 23:39

A good read on the Greek situation.

Osem · 05-02-2015, 09:02

Meanwhile the screw slowly turns:

Quote:

The European Central Bank (ECB) has toughened its stance with Greece by restricting financing to the country's banks.

In a statement, the central bank said it would no longer accept Greek government bonds as collateral for lending money to commercial banks.

The move makes access to cash more expensive for Greece's banks.

The ECB said the suspension came as it could not assume a "successful" deal on Greece's €240bn (£179bn) bailout.

Does anyone in Euro-La-La-Land seriously think the extraordinary resentment created by this episode is ever going to be forgotten? Whatever the outcome of these talks, I think lasting and serious damage has been done to the fabric of Europe.