Incapacity tests reject 37% of claimants

[mertle]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Talking about nit-picking, I would have to admit I get concerned when I see a piece of research from a Russell Group University with emotive language in it like -

The title - The Billion Pound Welfare Reform Fraud

Phrases such as
Case studies have shown the inhumanity of a system based on government targets and the pain and misery of the increasing stringency of these tests
LiMAS asks a set of questions for which the applicant can (but increasingly can’t) score up to 15 points
The ‘fit for work’ myth does not convert into any form of reality.
This does not count the human anxiety, misery or stress of the test, nor the suicides that have resulted because of it.
the hallowed taxpayer
It is a publically sanctioned fraud that misrepresents and *******ises its claims to support people

And considering that the author is one the co-founders of DPAC (Disabled People Against Cuts), may I suggest there may be another less than hidden Political agenda in the paper; and her twitter (redjolly1) banner may provide some insight...


Update - My apologies, as the paper is not in fact a research paper, but based upon the academic's blog at the LSE?

I think she makes some very good points, but then weakens them by her partiality.

I agree hugh on the language the agressive nature if it. I just happened to find it thought wow this gives some figures would be ideal to post. Although I accept its anti reform which I personally not I am anti to the way its descriminating disabled should be to simplify the welfare and make it harder to defraud. I never expected them to wage war on disabled accept that there would be collateral damage.

I felt it was eye opener in some of the stuff in it.

Yes from stand point she going to anti but think she found alot issues.

Hugh did you see this bit I was quite shocked at the figure of appeals gone up not down.

Why has this happened are more chancing there arm due to success rates or ATOS despite government assurances got even more incompetant. This is worry trend surely would thought it would get less this could cause major issues there already huge backlog. If trend going up how much this going to cost.

I was not suprised some those found fit were going to be short term sick maybe those who possible got injuries, recovering from ops would be deemed would make full recovery.

The ones which to me seems strange is the permenant sick group who deemed fit seems a strange issue. Are these then wrongly been assessed in process reclaiming. How can they be permenant sick but not able to qualify ESA.

I just hope the media raises questions which this has brought up.

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by Gary L

I think it's to do with them trying to cut pennies when there's millions in other places they haven't or won't look yet.

Alan keeps talking about tax avoidance (which is perfectly legal), rather than tax evasion (which is illegal).

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by denphone

No, no dear Alan.

So you prefer a system were the rich have everything at the expence of everone and elise and we cannot stop human rights violations in Syria?

---------- Post added at 05:49 ---------- Previous post was at 05:45 ----------

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Can i just ask how many threads are going to keep getting derailed and sky rocketed off topic by the delusional rantings of one poster to be honest it is getting beyond a joke now.

Seriously, you just do not see the big picture, my point is that we should no longer be under control of the rich and pay the price for their mistakes

---------- Post added at 05:52 ---------- Previous post was at 05:49 ----------

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Then i guess the answer is as long as he can stomach posting on here and getting completely ridiculed for his views which he has the right to hold and express in appropriate threads not ever damn thread he can post in. Maybe he is allowed to stay and do it is because he then becomes an easy target for insults not always well veiled and ridicule by some of the more up themselves members of CF.

Being honest either tell him straight to stop it or just ban the account too many threads are getting disrupted by this continual drivel that for me at least i would rather spend my time on other forums where we don't have this one person.

If CF users are prepaired to have a go at me, well then I will do the same, I know what you really think aboue me, but if you think that will stop me then you are mistaken, all it will do is I will shout back

---------- Post added at 05:55 ---------- Previous post was at 05:52 ----------

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

Why do you have to bring this into most of the threads you post in Alan?

It's not exactly on topic is it?

My point is that why is the government not taking a hard line of people like him as well?

---------- Post added at 05:57 ---------- Previous post was at 05:55 ----------

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

Alan keeps talking about tax avoidance (which is perfectly legal), rather than tax evasion (which is illegal).

Tax Aviodance and Evasion are both wrong in times of both growth and recession

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

If CF users are prepaired to have a go at me, well then I will do the same, I know what you really think aboue me, but if you think that will stop me then you are mistaken, all it will do is I will shout back

Not a problem i will just remove my hearing aid and then that will not work ether.

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

Tax Aviodance and Evasion are both wrong in times of both growth and recession

anyone else confused by this or is it just me

[denphone]

Originally Posted by martyh

anyone else confused by this or is it just me

No l get confused all the time.

Back on topic, please...

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Back on topic, please...

With respect Hugh, that's what we were trying to do

[mertle]

found some more figures at present they are going through 1.5m claims.

http://victimsofatoscorruption.wordp...d-fit-to-work/

333.000 are appealing the decision thats alot appeals. The appeal process increased as they expect it to peak at 500,000 next years wow. The costs so far for appeals has been 50m to government. The appeals success is 40% that equates to 200,000 but we cant go by this as it will flucturate batch of losses will reduce likewise the other way.

So as rough safe 150,000 will fail. I would assume as the likely hood its been targeted on scale we will see less and less appeals but then it flies against the expecting 500,000 appeals. I would be suprised they randomly selecting would targeted illnesses they likely to see chances of either it was fake or they not disabled for support.

They concluded from the first 141.000 assessed 37% been found fit for work.

Which means the government very premature with its anouncement if it only had 141,000 figures.

The other I dont like is the mistakes they should do proper assessment with profesionals to minimise those errors.

http://www.dpac.uk.net/2011/05/debbi...-fit-for-work/

This was such horror story mistakes like this can put a disabled person health at risk. Whether the lady filled the form right another question its been noted the questionairres very poorly done its confusing even those who work in organisations who help fill them in. So if these struggling you can imagine issues arise.

A Yorkshire bureau saw a woman in her forties who was working full-time and was enthusiastically looking forward to starting a new job, when she became ill. At first it was thought she had a viral illness, but she was subsequently diagnosed with lupus erythematosus and transverse myelitis. She was in a great deal of pain in her muscles and joints and had extreme fatigue. At times her balance was affected and she could not walk without someone to support her. Sometimes she lost sensation in her legs, and on her worst days she could not walk at all. Any exertion such as walking 40 or 50 metres led to days in bed. She had had a bad reaction to some of the treatment and an ECG showed her heart muscle had been damaged. Her husband had to come home from work each lunchtime to help her. Her immune system was weakened, so she had to be careful when mixing with others. She claimed ESA but was given six points in the Work Capability Assessment (WCA) and found capable of work. Her doctor supported her claim and she is currently appealing, but under Incapacity Benefit she would probably have been exempt and would have avoided this process

The whole WCA system needs to be looked at and preferably very soon sd the level of appeals is increasing every single day and i do wonder at what point we stop saving any money and start having to spend more money because of the appeals. Having never been through one and hoping to never have too i am guessing they are staffed by at least one person on a decent wage plus the costs of holding it in the first place. Atos are a disgrace in the way they handle the process and if it were in any other area of a company dealing with members of the public there would have been an outcry before now with action to follow.

I think what i worry about most is how this will change the country in terms of attitude as we in the UK have always been a fair minded and tolerent society i would hate to see that go as a result of propaganda from those with complete levels of ignorance.

[mertle]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

The whole WCA system needs to be looked at and preferably very soon sd the level of appeals is increasing every single day and i do wonder at what point we stop saving any money and start having to spend more money because of the appeals. Having never been through one and hoping to never have too i am guessing they are staffed by at least one person on a decent wage plus the costs of holding it in the first place. Atos are a disgrace in the way they handle the process and if it were in any other area of a company dealing with members of the public there would have been an outcry before now with action to follow.

I think what i worry about most is how this will change the country in terms of attitude as we in the UK have always been a fair minded and tolerent society i would hate to see that go as a result of propaganda from those with complete levels of ignorance.

totally agree but it wont its going get lot worse. Lots more badness coming if read osbourne todays he said saved 18bn on welfare its not enough further 10bn cuts coming. Now not all will be disabled but thinking the goalpost just got moved.

I will post it as new link on forum its worth its own thread. Not suprising he screwed up theyre now tons on the dole.

He one idiot who cant do his job properly He would'nt need further cuts if stimulated job creation not his stupid workfare. Like alot said his cuts was too deep now we all paying for his damage. His debt gone up again.

If I can find more info about stats on the disabled I will post it. Did you read those links on the other thread quite insight on new thing which will replace DLA its really nasty. Maybe this where dogbourne going to make the 10bn savings.

Yes i did read them and the information in them was already known and this whole dla replacement is nothing more then a cost cutting exercise. But it is well marketed to the general public by the government "personal independence payment" who would think that could be bad. We need more of the public to read up on it scratch the thin surface and see it for what it is.

[mertle]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Yes i did read them and the information in them was already known and this whole dla replacement is nothing more then a cost cutting exercise. But it is well marketed to the general public by the government "personal independence payment" who would think that could be bad. We need more of the public to read up on it scratch the thin surface and see it for what it is.

indeed I agree but the propaganda machine been full tilt with full deceit and lies. I agree PIP looks evil twisted bad. I wondering where he going to find another 10bn savings. Suppose really know the PIP slaughter. He forgets even disabled have bills where money going to come to pay them and there extra costs to help improve quality of life.