SD : TV price rises

Originally Posted by pythagoras

http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/vmed/analyst-research

Now qualify your advice

regards

John

Bought Barclays shares at 60p each and sold them when they hit £3.70 a few years back The is noway in 10 years that RBS shares are still going to be traded at 27p each!

[rovert]

Spoke to another VM customer today who when phoning to query the price change letter ended up with a £12 per month reduction in exchange for giving up what was supposedly a free Virgin tv service. Is there some logic in this?

[pythagoras]

Originally Posted by rovert

Spoke to another VM customer today who when phoning to query the price change letter ended up with a £12 per month reduction in exchange for giving up what was supposedly a free Virgin tv service. Is there some logic in this?

The logic is that most customers will not complain so the few that do can be given discounts to stay. Be one of the few

Regards

John

[Superblade7]

Originally Posted by alwaysabear

This is not going to be good reading for VM executives although not representative it sends a clear message. http://www.vmhd.blogspot.com/

I would agree with you bear as whilst it's only a small amount of people voting it gives a good indication of what the general feeling is.

I think VM's obsession with superfast broadband may also be their undoing. I think it would be safe to say that for the vast majority of people a reliable 10Mb or 30Mb service would suffice for most needs. I would imagine the customer base for 50Mb and above is a relatively small percentage of VM's overall customers and therefore spending huge amounts of money on doubling broadband speeds is great but is it really what most customers want? I'd put my neck on the line and say probably not.

I know a lot of the money being spent is on network improvements so this can only be an advantage for the many areas that are currently oversubscribed but then by doubling everyone's speeds, the network improvements may not actually show if everyone gets extra bandwidth.

The price difference now between Sky and VM is becoming interesting. I am just using this as an example but for Sky World, Unlimited BB and Unlimited Phone it's £88 a month. For VIP on VM it's now £105.71. I appreciate there are a few differences (i.e. faster BB, extra STB) but it just shows the price difference.

I love my TiVo and I have always been relatively happy with VM but (in true David Cameron style) I personally could get "more for less" with Sky so whilst I could do without the hassle of switching and getting the dish / ADSL line installed, it's looking more and more attractive to me unless VM can deliver something exciting to make me stay before April.

I think that unless VM use some of their recently announced profit to significantly improve their TV / TiVo service soon, they are in real danger of loosing lots of customers over the coming year or two once Sky has access to BT Infinity as they will have all the content and fast broadband.

However, it's all a matter of opinion and everyone has to choose what is best for them within their own budget and entertainment needs.

[stereohaven]

Originally Posted by Superblade7

I think VM's obsession with superfast broadband may also be their undoing. I think it would be safe to say that for the vast majority of people a reliable 10Mb or 30Mb service would suffice for most needs. I would imagine the customer base for 50Mb and above is a relatively small percentage of VM's overall customers and therefore spending huge amounts of money on doubling broadband speeds is great but is it really what most customers want? I'd put my neck on the line and say probably not.

Couldn't agree more, in fact, if my 30MB connection was reliable and usable at all times of the day then it is unlikely I would be looking to leave already.

This quest for the greatest speed for advertising purposes has led them to lose sight of what's important IMHO. As you've said, the majority of Joe Public just want/need a reliable connection at a decent speed for a fair price and between 10 and 30MB is probably sufficient for the vast majority.

Unfortunately, sensible doesn't sell.

Originally Posted by Superblade7

I know a lot of the money being spent is on network improvements so this can only be an advantage for the many areas that are currently oversubscribed but then by doubling everyone's speeds, the network improvements may not actually show if everyone gets extra bandwidth.

Again I agree and see the same dangers. Improvements may alleviate the problems I have experienced but for how long? What if I get my new 60MB connection and can't even stream YouTube which I struggle with now at certain times on 30MB?

The extra speed but lack of performance would drive me even more nuts than it does now!

Originally Posted by Superblade7

The price difference now between Sky and VM is becoming interesting. I am just using this as an example but for Sky World, Unlimited BB and Unlimited Phone it's £88 a month. For VIP on VM it's now £105.71. I appreciate there are a few differences (i.e. faster BB, extra STB) but it just shows the price difference.

If we ignore any "returning customer" offers, from the 1st April my comparable package on Sky (Entertainment Extra, Multiroom, HD Pack, Broadband and Phone Line) is now 75p a month cheaper than VM.

Of course it isn't a great deal of money difference, the Broadband is slower and I lose ESPN (which I don't really watch anyway), but I get extra calls included, some more channels in HD and most importantly, everything works as it should.

My parents have been with VM since the NYNEX days and it has always had the advantage of being cheaper than Sky for (give or take) a comparable package, until this year.

In fact they are moving soon and going to Sky as it is now better value for their needs. They don't need or want 10MB Broadband let alone 100MB for the sparse amount of web surfing they do and I'm sure they are not alone.

Originally Posted by Superblade7

I love my TiVo and I have always been relatively happy with VM but (in true David Cameron style) I personally could get "more for less" with Sky so whilst I could do without the hassle of switching and getting the dish / ADSL line installed, it's looking more and more attractive to me unless VM can deliver something exciting to make me stay before April.

I guess we will soon find out if they are having trouble with churn if some very exciting news or offers starts being announced.

To be honest I think most people will moan about the increases and probably do nothing.

Originally Posted by Superblade7

I think that unless VM use some of their recently announced profit to significantly improve their TV / TiVo service soon, they are in real danger of loosing lots of customers over the coming year or two once Sky has access to BT Infinity as they will have all the content and fast broadband.

Yep, for me it's what happens next year in terms of price rises that will be more interesting because Sky will have their Fibre product bedded in properly and available much more widely. Then it will be as direct a comparison between packages/services as it's ever been.

Originally Posted by Superblade7

However, it's all a matter of opinion and everyone has to choose what is best for them within their own budget and entertainment needs.

Oh wouldn't it be dull if we all liked the same things.

---------- Post added at 09:01 ---------- Previous post was at 08:36 ----------

Originally Posted by Superblade7

The price difference now between Sky and VM is becoming interesting. I am just using this as an example but for Sky World, Unlimited BB and Unlimited Phone it's £88 a month. For VIP on VM it's now £105.71. I appreciate there are a few differences (i.e. faster BB, extra STB) but it just shows the price difference.

Just been thinking about this bit again as we do know Sky's Fibre Broadband pricing, so...

VM VIP = £105.71
Sky World (with Unlimited Fibre and Multiroom) = £110.75

Hmmmm....

[alistairgd]

Originally Posted by spankysmagicpian

I'm going to move off the VIP50 now since I received my revised pricing letter. OK, it's only £5.XX but where does it end? If everyone who I take service from upped them by £5 it would soon mount up.

Is VIP20/30? still available? I can live with 30Mb until they get round to doubling it. (Shame about losing the HD Sports and movies though :-( )

That's basically what I did last month.

I was paying £100 for

V+ box
extra cable box upstairs
TV + Sky Sports + Movies
Evening telephone
50Mb BB

Got a TIVO leaflet through the door so switched to

Tivo Box
V+ box updatirs
TV + Sky Sports + Movies
Evening telephone
30Mb BB, doubling in a few weeks.

For £65/month.

That took FOUR phone calls to arrange because the kept messing it up and charging me the wrong price.

Now I get a letter saying $5.25 price hike, huh? I just started a new contract!

Anyway, don't miss the sports or the movies, and the 30Mb is really hard to distinguish from the 50Mb in normal use.

[Superblade7]

---------- Post added at 10:45 ---------- Previous post was at 10:44 ----------

[/COLOR]

Originally Posted by stereohaven

Couldn't agree more, in fact, if my 30MB connection was reliable and usable at all times of the day then it is unlikely I would be looking to leave already.

This quest for the greatest speed for advertising purposes has led them to lose sight of what's important IMHO. As you've said, the majority of Joe Public just want/need a reliable connection at a decent speed for a fair price and between 10 and 30MB is probably sufficient for the vast majority.

Unfortunately, sensible doesn't sell.



Again I agree and see the same dangers. Improvements may alleviate the problems I have experienced but for how long? What if I get my new 60MB connection and can't even stream YouTube which I struggle with now at certain times on 30MB?

The extra speed but lack of performance would drive me even more nuts than it does now!



If we ignore any "returning customer" offers, from the 1st April my comparable package on Sky (Entertainment Extra, Multiroom, HD Pack, Broadband and Phone Line) is now 75p a month cheaper than VM.

Of course it isn't a great deal of money difference, the Broadband is slower and I lose ESPN (which I don't really watch anyway), but I get extra calls included, some more channels in HD and most importantly, everything works as it should.

My parents have been with VM since the NYNEX days and it has always had the advantage of being cheaper than Sky for (give or take) a comparable package, until this year.

In fact they are moving soon and going to Sky as it is now better value for their needs. They don't need or want 10MB Broadband let alone 100MB for the sparse amount of web surfing they do and I'm sure they are not alone.



I guess we will soon find out if they are having trouble with churn if some very exciting news or offers starts being announced.

To be honest I think most people will moan about the increases and probably do nothing.



Yep, for me it's what happens next year in terms of price rises that will be more interesting because Sky will have their Fibre product bedded in properly and available much more widely. Then it will be as direct a comparison between packages/services as it's ever been.



Oh wouldn't it be dull if we all liked the same things.

---------- Post added at 09:01 ---------- Previous post was at 08:36 ----------



Just been thinking about this bit again as we do know Sky's Fibre Broadband pricing, so...

VM VIP = £105.71
Sky World (with Unlimited Fibre and Multiroom) = £110.75

Hmmmm....

Although with Sky multiroom is optional as opposed to VM where you have it with VIP whether you want it or not. So for people who don't require multiroom, choose Sky with the above package for £100.50 and you'd have far more content including HD and a comparable BB service!

Like I said in my earlier post, it's everyone's individual needs / budgets that is the big decider. For me, superfast BB and endless VOD is nice to have but not a necessity. Lots more TV content and choice of HD is a big draw for me with Sky at this present time.

So as I've said before on here, I'll give VM until April's price rise to give me something that makes me personally want to stay or serious thought will be going into a switch to Sky for better content at a cheaper price (currently!!!).

[stereohaven]

Originally Posted by Superblade7

Although with Sky multiroom is optional as opposed to VM where you have it with VIP whether you want it or not. So for people who don't require multiroom, choose Sky with the above package for £100.50 and you'd have far more content including HD and a comparable BB service!

Ahhh I see, I didn't realise you got the extra box whether you want it or not.

[Superblade7]

Originally Posted by stereohaven

Ahhh I see, I didn't realise you got the extra box whether you want it or not.

No worries, I don't want to seem to be anti-VM as I am far from it, just that Sky seem to be steadily improving their offering whilst VM are left "coming soon"

[stereohaven]

Originally Posted by Superblade7

No worries, I don't want to seem to be anti-VM as I am far from it, just that Sky seem to be steadily improving their offering whilst VM are left "coming soon"

I agree.

At least it should all be good for the consumer!

[MrB]

A number of people have mentioned waiting until the 1 April to decide whether to accept or reject the price rise. Will this work? Or do you have to give notice within X days of being notified of the planned price rise (so about now), otherwise you are deemed to have accepted the change?

And has anyone who has only recently agreed their price/contract managed to get it reversed/cancelled out with a credit as a result of "thinking of leaving"?

Many thanks

MrB

[Superblade7]

Originally Posted by MrB

A number of people have mentioned waiting until the 1 April to decide whether to accept or reject the price rise. Will this work? Or do you have to give notice within X days of being notified of the planned price rise (so about now), otherwise you are deemed to have accepted the change?

MrB

Mr B, have a read back through this thread as I am sure either Ben or DF clarified this previously that you could do it within X days of the changes coming into effect on 1 April.

[MrB]

Originally Posted by Superblade7

Mr B, have a read back through this thread as I am sure either Ben or DF clarified this previously that you could do it within X days of the changes coming into effect on 1 April.

Thank you - I have been reading the 49 pages of posts but haven't spotted the explicit clarification (even checked Ben and DFs posts and feel like a stalker, but still didn't spot it ).

The T&Cs state:

If we and/or Virgin Media Payments:
a. increase our respective charges under this agreement;
b. make significant changes to the services so the services you are entitled to receive in return for the charges you pay are significantly altered or reduced; or
c. make significant changes to the terms and conditions of this agreement (including the other legal stuff),

you may cancel those services affected without penalty by giving us and/or Virgin Media Payments (as applicable) at least 30 days' notice. Such notice must be given within 30 days of the increase in charges or changes to the services or this agreement being notified to you. If you were not notified of these changes in advance, you must give notice of cancellation of the services affected to us and/or Virgin Media Payments (as applicable) within 30 days of receipt of your first bill following such increase in charges. If you do not give notice of cancellation within the specified period, you will be deemed to have accepted the increase in charges and/or the changes to the services and this agreement. You will no longer be able to cancel your services under this paragraph. If you cancel any services in these circumstances, the increased charges will not apply to those services during the 30-day notice period and paragraph J2 will not apply if you cancel before the end of the minimum period.

It is the either/or that is confusing - either within 30 days of being notified of the change, or within 30 days of the change actually taking effect (and if you aren't notified, within 30 days of the first bill showing the rise). So if both you could effectively cancel (30 days notice) any time between getting the letter and end April/1st May?

I was not planning to leave as I am generally happy with my services and was with my price until this rise, but am getting tempting half-price return to Sky offers and was just weighing up how long I have got to decide/take action if required.

Many thanks

MrB

[Superblade7]

Originally Posted by MrB

Thank you - I have been reading the 49 pages of posts but haven't spotted the explicit clarification (even checked Ben and DFs posts and feel like a stalker, but still didn't spot it ).

The T&Cs state:



It is the either/or that is confusing - either within 30 days of being notified of the change, or within 30 days of the change actually taking effect (and if you aren't notified, within 30 days of the first bill showing the rise). So if both you could effectively cancel (30 days notice) any time between getting the letter and end April/1st May?

I was not planning to leave as I am generally happy with my services and was with my price until this rise, but am getting tempting half-price return to Sky offers and was just weighing up how long I have got to decide/take action if required.

Many thanks

MrB

MrB

I'm sure Ben or DF will clarify at some point but I think from reading the T&Cs you've posted suggest you will be able to give notice on 1 April when the prices officially rise. If in doubt, give retentions a call on 150 and choose the option for thinking of leaving us. They'll advise you the official line and may even offer you a better deal if you tell them what Sky are offering you.

Good luck!

Superblade7

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by alwaysabear

This is not going to be good reading for VM executives although not representative it sends a clear message. http://www.vmhd.blogspot.com/

If Virgin have sense, they will read this and respond to this!

---------- Post added at 15:38 ---------- Previous post was at 15:36 ----------

Originally Posted by pythagoras

http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/vmed/analyst-research

Now qualify your advice

regards

John

Why are Virgin still listed on a American Stock exchange?

---------- Post added at 15:41 ---------- Previous post was at 15:38 ----------

Originally Posted by Superblade7

I would agree with you bear as whilst it's only a small amount of people voting it gives a good indication of what the general feeling is.

I think VM's obsession with superfast broadband may also be their undoing. I think it would be safe to say that for the vast majority of people a reliable 10Mb or 30Mb service would suffice for most needs. I would imagine the customer base for 50Mb and above is a relatively small percentage of VM's overall customers and therefore spending huge amounts of money on doubling broadband speeds is great but is it really what most customers want? I'd put my neck on the line and say probably not.

I know a lot of the money being spent is on network improvements so this can only be an advantage for the many areas that are currently oversubscribed but then by doubling everyone's speeds, the network improvements may not actually show if everyone gets extra bandwidth.

The price difference now between Sky and VM is becoming interesting. I am just using this as an example but for Sky World, Unlimited BB and Unlimited Phone it's £88 a month. For VIP on VM it's now £105.71. I appreciate there are a few differences (i.e. faster BB, extra STB) but it just shows the price difference.

I love my TiVo and I have always been relatively happy with VM but (in true David Cameron style) I personally could get "more for less" with Sky so whilst I could do without the hassle of switching and getting the dish / ADSL line installed, it's looking more and more attractive to me unless VM can deliver something exciting to make me stay before April.

I think that unless VM use some of their recently announced profit to significantly improve their TV / TiVo service soon, they are in real danger of loosing lots of customers over the coming year or two once Sky has access to BT Infinity as they will have all the content and fast broadband.

However, it's all a matter of opinion and everyone has to choose what is best for them within their own budget and entertainment needs.

They should start buy putting (at the very least) all the non-BSkyB HD channels, both Premier Sports channels and the BBC red Button service, along with Al Jazzera!