Post-Brexit Thread

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Mick

More one sided clap trap.

Whereas as you are always so even handed Mick, always presenting both sides of the argument, in a pleasant and constructive manner

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7401151.html

Nigel Farage was forced to admit the referendum on leaving the EU was only “advisory” after he clashed live on TV with the lead claimant in a legal challenge to the Government on the issue.

Ms Miller insisted the UK has a representative democracy which ensures politicians have to debate issues, and suggested that if Parliament had wanted to give away its sovereignty over the choice to trigger Article 50 and leave the EU, “the Referendum Act would not have said it was advisory”.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

It's not about delivering what they promise it's about continuing to make statements of fact like the £350m to the EU that were knowingly misleading. The aim is to try and prevent this type of thing happening in the future.

It wasn't £350m, it was MORE.

The figures, from the UK's current account published by the Office for National Statistics, say that, before the application of the rebate, the UK's gross contribution was £19.6bn a year - about £376m a week.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

It wasn't £350m, it was MORE.

The UK doesn’t pay or "send to Brussels" this higher figure of £18 billion, or anything equivalent per week or per day. The rebate is applied straight away, so the UK never contributes this much.
https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-m...ee-55-million/

My point is that politics should not descend to the point where people know that the figures they are quoting are wrong but quote them over a period of time repeatedly. It's plain dishonest. We're talking of facts here, not opinions of what-might-happens.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

My point is that politics should not descend to the point where people know that the figures they are quoting are wrong but quote them over a period of time repeatedly. It's plain dishonest. We're talking of facts here, not opinions of what-might-happens.

So the ONT are wrong? Perhaps the Brexit campaign should've qualified the £350m with "before rebates" but it doesn't change the figure.

[nomadking]

The rest of the EU are/were hell bent on scrapping the rebate. The rebate is a consequence of the UK having to apply EU tariffs on non-EU goods because we have a history of trading with the Commonwealth countries. It also took more than 10 years before it was put in place.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by pip08456

So the ONT are wrong? Perhaps the Brexit campaign should've qualified the £350m with "before rebates" but it doesn't change the figure.

The amount of £350m is not sent to Brussels every week and that was the claim. See the factcheck.

[Mr K]

The UK Statistics Authority wrote a letter rubbishing the £350m figure at the time. However leave campaign ignored them and continued to use the figure
https://fullfact.org/blog/2016/apr/u...ly-misleading/

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

My point is that politics should not descend to the point where people know that the figures they are quoting are wrong but quote them over a period of time repeatedly. It's plain dishonest. We're talking of facts here, not opinions of what-might-happens.

What, like this "fact"

Leaving the EU would cost UK households £4,300 a year making them “permanently poorer”, chancellor George Osborne said on Monday, hours before the government publishes its long-term assessment of the economic costs of Brexit.

Speaking to the BBC on Monday morning, Mr Osborne claimed that the Treasury’s gloomy forecasts represented the economic facts

Balderdash!

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

What, like this "fact"

Balderdash!

There's a significant difference between predictions - however bad they might be - and incorrect statements of the current situation. I don't condone Osborne's statement for one minute.

I appreciate that not everyone is willing to accept this difference.

[RichardCoulter]

Independent report on individual membership of the EU for those that want it:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7405196.html

Personally, if I wanted the benefits of being a member of an EU country, i'd obtain dual nationality.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Independent report on individual membership of the EU for those that want it:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7405196.html

Personally, if I wanted the benefits of being a member of an EU country, i'd obtain dual nationality.

The EU's not a country so it seems a strange proposal to be an EU citizen not tied to a member state. Can't see this happening.

The 350 million claim\lie\exaggeration was totally irrelevant to most who voted to leave as was the entire campaign their vote was cast the minute the referendum was announced and was never going to change. Least now we're not alone we have company from across the pond that are in the process of being called uneducated, racist and ignorant so gotta look on the bright side .

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

The 350 million claim\lie\exaggeration was totally irrelevant to most who voted to leave as was the entire campaign their vote was cast the minute the referendum was announced and was never going to change. Least now we're not alone we have company from across the pond that are in the process of being called uneducated, racist and ignorant so gotta look on the bright side .

Am I a pedant in wanting future campaigns free of factual inaccuracies designed to nudge a few per cent over the line? Possibly but I can but hope.

I'm not sure why the 'uneducated' thing bothers people. First of all it's usually put less offensively than that, i.e without a college degree, because uneducated implies something different. However there is an actual divide between those with higher formal education and those without and it's something that should be talked about because it appears to be an increasing divide. People without for example may have learnt a profession only to see it die and found nobody who cared because more jobs were being created for those with a degree. This was a one of the big theories behind things like Brexit and Trump no? That globalisation has 'left people behind'?