Post-Brexit Thread

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

The idea we had no ultimate control over our affairs within the EU is absurd.

Well, lest there is any doubt, the British people have made sure who is calling the shots in future. There is no 'Remain' campaign, no EU Directives and no more bank-rolling failures.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Kursk

A democratic vote was won by the leave campaign; arguing the toss is becoming increasingly moot.

CF is becoming more dysfunctional than the EU.

For the record, patriotic, unselfish British people voted to leave. Those who lack vision with no courage for making decisions voted to remain.

Whingers .

No one's arguing the toss. We're just arguing with misinformation. Calling hard-working patriotic Brits in Gibraltar, Northern Ireland, Scotland, London and elsewhere who voted to stay in Europe as having no courage for making decisions indicates that you don't have a reasoned counter-argument.

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

No one's arguing the toss. We're just arguing with misinformation. Calling hard-working patriotic Brits in Gibraltar, Northern Ireland, Scotland, London and elsewhere who voted to stay in Europe as having no courage for making decisions indicates that you don't have a reasoned counter-argument.

There is no misinformation to compare with the nonsense of Project Fear.

A counter-argument for an event now over is superfluous.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Kursk

Well, lest there is any doubt, the British people have made sure who is calling the shots in future. There is no 'Remain' campaign, no EU Directives and no more bank-rolling failures.

I think you need to do your research. We're still bank-rolling RBS. Although saving our banks was nothing to do with the EU last time I checked! We're still in the EU and we haven't enacted Article 50. That mention of no EU directives? That's wrong too.

---------- Post added at 16:28 ---------- Previous post was at 16:25 ----------

Originally Posted by Kursk

There is no misinformation to compare with the nonsense of Project Fear.

A counter-argument for an event now over is superfluous.

Misinformation is misinformation and I'm happy to provide information when people provide opinions that are at odds with the facts. No one is providing a counter-argument to any events that are over.

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I think you need to do your research. We're still bank-rolling RBS. Although saving our banks was nothing to do with the EU last time I checked! We're still in the EU and we haven't enacted Article 50. That mention of no EU directives? That's wrong too.

Oh please. The context is the EU not RBS.

Yes, we're still in the EU; your continued lack of vision is preventing you from seeing beyond Article 50.

The EU are good at minutiae so some of their 'rules' will be retained. It's the big decisions they are no good at.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Misinformation is misinformation and I'm happy to provide information when people provide opinions that are at odds with the facts. No one is providing a counter-argument to any events that are over.

No you want to prolong 'old' when 'new' beckons. You lost the vote; get over it.

[1andrew1]

Fears mount in Ireland over post-Brexit ‘hard border

Financial Times James Brokenshire, the UK’s Northern Ireland secretary, said at the Conservative party conference in Birmingham this week that the UK government “will work to ensure that Northern Ireland’s unique interests are protected and advanced”.

Irish officials, however, say they have diminishing faith in such reassurances until the nature of the UK’s departure from the EU becomes clear. In the meantime, Enda Kenny, the Irish prime minister, is battling to convince a sceptical public that the government can address the threats of Brexit. These include not just the border question but disruption to trade between Ireland and Britain, which amounts to more than €1bn a week, and the possible ending of the common travel area.

https://www.ft.com/content/56f62810-...7-e7ada1d123b1

---------- Post added at 16:45 ---------- Previous post was at 16:35 ----------

Originally Posted by Kursk

No you want to prolong 'old' when 'new' beckons. You lost the vote; get over it.

If people post information that I believe is wrong then I will endeavour to correct them. That's absolutely nothing to do with referendum results I can assure you. If they prove me wrong great.
I get that you don't like me pointing out the fact that we still have to enact EU legislation. I get that you don't like me stating that bailing out the banks was a UK initiative. But those are the facts so please move on.

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

If people post information that I believe is wrong then I will endeavour to correct them. That's absolutely nothing to do with referendum results I can assure you. If they prove me wrong great.
I get that you don't like me pointing out the fact that we still have to enact EU legislation. I get that you don't like me stating that bailing out the banks was a UK initiative. But those are the facts so please move on.

It is your prerogative to post what you please but a debilitating mindset will not help our future. I don't know why you have mentioned the banks but hey ho.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Kursk

Why ever not? They came here, worked hard and brought up a family that includes a successful and articulate son. Immigration won't be stopped; people who do want to come here will benefit from British way of life and Government.

Because one of the core tenets of Brexit was to reduce and limit immigration. This is especially true for people, I assume, like your parents who had no offer of employment when they arrived in the UK.

I am happy to hear that your brother is successful and articulate but I am not sure that is relevant to this debate ..

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

The UK would not need to lose its political entity and you provide no evidence for that. Last time I checked Obama was the leader of the Free World though doubtless some will argue that it's Kim Kardashian or Katie Hopkins.

What? are you serious ? The president of the USA may have influence and power but he is absolutely not the leader of the free world

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

- the UK would not have to join a more integrated EU. We opted out of the Euro, we said no to the Shengen agreement.
.

With those opt outs and all the others we have what's the point of being in the EU .It's absolutely ridiculous being in the EU and opting out of everything that makes the EU

Remember, leaving the EU means a poorer country with less money to spend on our armed forces, schools and hospitals.

Really ? and you know this how

---------- Post added at 16:59 ---------- Previous post was at 16:56 ----------

Originally Posted by ianch99

Because one of the core tenets of Brexit was to reduce and limit immigration. This is especially true for people, I assume, like your parents who had no offer of employment when they arrived in the UK.

I am happy to hear that your brother is successful and articulate but I am not sure that is relevant to this debate ..

Reducing and limiting immigration does not mean stopping it .This idea that remainers have that people will be kicked out and immigration set at zero is just more scaremongering imo

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Because one of the core tenets of Brexit was to reduce and limit immigration. This is especially true for people, I assume, like your parents who had no offer of employment when they arrived in the UK.

I am happy to hear that your brother is successful and articulate but I am not sure that is relevant to this debate ..

Control immigration not stop it. My brother? - we are no relation. My support for Ramrod is because he talks sense.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by martyh

What? are you serious ? The president of the USA may have influence and power but he is absolutely not the leader of the free world.

OK, there's nothing in writing to say that but as the most powerful nation in the free world I argue that he leads it. I get that this is subjective.

Originally Posted by martyh

With those opt outs and all the others we have what's the point of being in the EU .It's absolutely ridiculous being in the EU and opting out of everything that makes the EU.

No one ever suggested the UK opted out of everything unless they meant Brexit. Free trade and the chance to influence standards that govern its industries are two great reasons for a country to be in the EU and not outside it.

Originally Posted by martyh

Really ? and you know this how

On Monday we became the sixth largest economy falling behind France; on Sunday we were the fifth largest and ahead of France. So we're poorer already. Anyone taking a trip abroad will notice this.
The increase in costs of imported goods will start to impact our spending power next year when the existing currency hedges run out. The more that May talks about a hard Brexit, the poorer the country becomes as the Pound falls. We've already seen hefty prices rises from the likes of Apple and Hotpoint and more are on their way.

Originally Posted by Kursk

A counter-argument for an event now over is superfluous.

The vote means we leave the EU but that is really all that was on the ballot and there is nothing stopping Remain voters from advocating for the terms they would rather have and a Britain they would rather see. Brexit was not a mandate for everything you've ever wanted. You can see part of the problem with this in the tension in the Brexit camp with different versions of what it entails. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ne...axes-q0nqrbwtk

The benefits of Brexit trade deals could take nearly two decades to emerge and the Treasury may lose more than £20 billion a year in tax, some ministers believe amid cabinet splits on the issue.

A senior Brexit-supporting minister said that Britain would reap in “two to four years” the economic rewards of leaving the EU, but Remain colleagues accused Brexiters of “a reality gap” between rhetoric and what was achievable. Britain’s next steps towards Brexit risk being beset by tensions between ministers despite public displays of unity at the Tory conference.

Divisions have emerged over the scale of dangers facing the economy; how long it will take to agree trade deals; the value of warnings by the City of London; and the consequences of the fall in the value of sterling.

Even without that there are 48% of the electorate who didn't vote for this and won't suddenly disappear.

---------- Post added at 17:23 ---------- Previous post was at 17:20 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

Reducing and limiting immigration does not mean stopping it .This idea that remainers have that people will be kicked out and immigration set at zero is just more scaremongering imo

The government talking as if foreign-born doctors can stay 'for now' and companies have to publish the numbers of foreign workers doesn't suggest a country that simply want to control immigration but one which wants to get of them. If qualified doctors who are here already aren't safe then you can't really say this is about low-skilled migration or uncontrolled migration - it's about getting rid of foreigners.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

OK, there's nothing in writing to say that but as the most powerful nation in the free world I argue that he leads it. I get that this is subjective.


No one ever suggested the UK opted out of everything unless they meant Brexit. Free trade and the chance to influence standards that govern its industries are two great reasons for a country to be in the EU and not outside it.


On Monday we became the sixth largest economy falling behind France; on Sunday we were the fifth largest and ahead of France.
The increase in costs of imported goods will start to impact our spending power next year when the existing currency hedges run out. The more that May talks about a hard Brexit, the poorer the country becomes s the Pound falls. We've already seen hefty prices rises from the likes of Apple and Hotpoint and more are on their way.

... and of course the Euro will never fall when the banking crisis inevitably erupts good and proper in Italy for example. Right now the focus is inevitably on the UK, that won't last forever and the Euro will sooner of later reflect the fundamental
problems within the Eurozone. When it does the Euro will fall relative to Sterling and the situation will be reversed. No doubt at that time the threat to the UK will suddenly become the relatively high value of Sterling.

We're all aware that the UK faces problems but your argument re the relative prosperity of the UK v. EU fails to acknowledge the massive problems facing the EU which aren't going away any time soon and which will have a greater impact on us inside the EU than outside.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Kursk

Control immigration not stop it

So do you think, with the Brexit mandate to "control" immigration, migrants from Latvia would be allowed to live here if they so desired?

I just don't understand the contradiction. Ramrod seems to support a position that it seems would have prohibited his parents settling here in the UK in the first place.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

No one ever suggested the UK opted out of everything unless they meant Brexit. Free trade and the chance to influence standards that govern its industries are two great reasons for a country to be in the EU and not outside it.

Up to now we have opted out of the Schengen area,the Euro ,the Economic and Monetary Union ,we have opt outs from justice and home affairs legislation(130 in total) and the Fundamental Charter of Human Rights .

a la carte membership is really getting up the EU nose