Post-Brexit Thread - Page 103

ntluser · 05-09-2016, 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Yes indeed.

The down side is it's likely because the government have so far failed to provide any detail on what Brexit actually entails, so businesses are now just getting on with it.

We're completely in limbo at the moment. The prophecies of doom haven't happened as we're just stalled and doing nothing, the progress we've made towards making the best of the situation also non-existent. We've done nothing and have no clue where we're going after the exit door.

Some movement would be good sooner rather than later on this, to at least give us some idea of where we're going. Leaving us and our partners dangling for too long is unfair even if it is politically expedient.

Given that Brexit is a work in progress it's not really surprising that there's nothing to report at present especially as some of the actions being taken may be commercially sensitive.

We do know that the UK is sounding out trade deals with India, Australia and China and that Canada has offered to act as a go-between using their trade deal link with the EU.

The UK is examining the opportunities and alternatives in the unlikely event that a satisfactory deal cannot be agreed with the EU. So if the EU turns nasty we can trade elsewhere. Gives the EU an incentive to play fair knowing that others are interested in trading with the UK.

TheDaddy · 05-09-2016, 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

Looking like there will be no points system for immigration: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37271420

But we were promised by leave that would defiantly happen....

ntluser · 05-09-2016, 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

But we were promised by leave that would defiantly happen....

It's possible for an undesirable to have the necessary points to enter and what we want is a simpler system that can control entry or not at will.

We could end up with a visa system like the USA where you need a passport and a visa to gain entry and you have to apply well in advance so that the security service can check you out before approving entry.

If you are deemed a risk you don't get a visa and therefore get no access.

If you get a visa and you break the rules, your visa is revoked and you are deported.

**Chris** · 05-09-2016, 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

But we were promised by leave that would defiantly happen....

Pardon my pedantry but I believe the leave campaign described things that "can" happen, not things they promised would happen - given that nobody could say any of the leading leavers would be in a position to deliver on any promises they were perceived to be making.

This was a referendum, not an election, it's a fairly elementary and well-understood thing about referendums that they don't come with a manifesto.

TheDaddy · 05-09-2016, 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

Pardon my pedantry but I believe the leave campaign described things that "can" happen, not things they promised would happen - given that nobody could say any of the leading leavers would be in a position to deliver on any promises they were perceived to be making.

This was a referendum, not an election, it's a fairly elementary and well-understood thing about referendums that they don't come with a manifesto.

Make your own mind up, I don't see much mention of the word can

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7058936.html

I see pledge and promise feature though

05-09-2016, 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Make your own mind up, I don't see much mention of the word can

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7058936.html

I see pledge and promise feature though

Doesn't bother me what was promised or not promised ,what we don't want is a system that automatically allows people in because they meet set criteria ,we need to have the ability to refuse entry regardless of skills or points .Also i think the points system is only part of Australia's whole system

heero_yuy · 05-09-2016, 18:05

TBQH I don't care what system is put in place so long as it is effective in reducing the flood of immigrants that threaten to destroy the public services in this country.

There is some evidence that the Australian points based system is not as effective as it first appears. Visa's may be a more controllable method.

05-09-2016, 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

TBQH I don't care what system is put in place so long as it is effective in reducing the flood of immigrants that threaten to destroy the public services in this country.

There is some evidence that the Australian points based system is not as effective as it first appears. Visa's may be a more controllable method.

I agree ,the difference between us and Australia is that we have been hit from all sides with immigrants Australia hasn't, so a points based system is probably ok for them ,we need to be much more restrictive than a simple system that allows people into the country automatically because they meet set criteria

ntluser · 05-09-2016, 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

TBQH I don't care what system is put in place so long as it is effective in reducing the flood of immigrants that threaten to destroy the public services in this country.

There is some evidence that the Australian points based system is not as effective as it first appears. Visa's may be a more controllable method.

I think a lot of people voted for Brexit because of the adverse effects on their lifestyle caused by a large influx of immigrants.

Though we do need to reduce the numbers of immigrants, we also need to get the UK's unemployed into work and to ensure that we have the necessary housing, schools, doctors, dentists and jobs for UK nationals in areas where the number of immigrants is large.

By offsetting the negative effects of high immigration, UK people will tolerate the numbers so long as they do not affect their lifestyles and it is the responsibility of the government to ensure that the negative effects are addressed with some sense of urgency.

**Damien** · 05-09-2016, 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyh

Doesn't bother me what was promised or not promised ,what we don't want is a system that automatically allows people in because they meet set criteria ,we need to have the ability to refuse entry regardless of skills or points .Also i think the points system is only part of Australia's whole system

It's worth reading this article into how many consider the points system to be bogus: http://www.economist.com/news/intern...ed-they-do-not

There is also talk of giving some sort of preferential treatment to EU workers in any deal. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ne...lets-8qxp90vgw

Quote:

The prime minister refused to rule out suggestions that she would give EU citizens preferential access to Britain after Brexit, something the Vote Leave campaign said should end.

Asked whether favourable access was possible, she said that she thought voters “wanted to see an ability to be able to control the movement of people from the European Union. And obviously that’s what I say, not free movement as it has been in the past.”

And to add to that it wasn't ruled out by Theresa Villiers on the Daily Politics although she isn't a senior figure.

We still have no idea of what will happen and the government is sending slightly contradictorily messages. You get the sense they have no idea of what the prospects are for any part of the deal so are leaving their options open. Unless the goldilocks option emerges they're going to have a difficult time.

---------- Post added at 18:51 ---------- Previous post was at 18:49 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

Pardon my pedantry but I believe the leave campaign described things that "can" happen, not things they promised would happen - given that nobody could say any of the leading leavers would be in a position to deliver on any promises they were perceived to be making.

This was a referendum, not an election, it's a fairly elementary and well-understood thing about referendums that they don't come with a manifesto.

Ok but I wonder to what degree those who voted will accept that? The £350 million for the NHS will be forgotten as will all the stuff about VAT discounts and lower taxes. Immigration was what won it for leave.

The fury that will be met with any compromise on immigration that isn't the one envisioned by many for voted will be strong.

ntluser · 05-09-2016, 19:17

Given that we've only just voted for Brexit a few months ago the expectation of a dramatic change in immigration is unreasonable.

If, as some want, we expel all immigrants tomorrow this will have a massive negative effect on our lifestyles because we do not have people trained up to take their places and do their jobs.

The NHS has a large number of highly trained immigrants working in it. Given the existing medical staff shortages, it would take years to get new people trained up to take their places and thus any reduction in the number of immigrants will be gradual and over a number of years.

When numbers do fall, this will free up places in schools, doctors' & dentists' surgeries and housing accomodation though it will be some time before it happens.It won't be an overnight phenomenon.

ianch99 · 05-09-2016, 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

Ok but I wonder to what degree those who voted will accept that? The £350 million for the NHS will be forgotten as will all the stuff about VAT discounts and lower taxes. Immigration was what won it for leave.

The fury that will be met with any compromise on immigration that isn't the one envisioned by many for voted will be strong.

Boris, erstwhile Brexit leader, doesn't seem to be singing from this hymn sheet?

Boris Johnson: UK looks forward to welcoming new Polish immigrants

Quote:

Boris Johnson has said Britain looks forward to welcoming a new generation of Polish immigrants, after visiting a language school in the Polish capital on Saturday.

06-09-2016, 03:57

Well in fairness to boris he only got into brexit as his way to the party leadership and now that's off the cards a change in tact was to be expected I'm sure we will see more from him in the coming months. Apart from his own ambition boris is extremely elastic on personal beliefs and convictions a strong breeze can sway them sometimes.

ntluser · 06-09-2016, 07:08

Given the amount of poor planning and financial waste we have had from government Boris can still welcome the next Polish generation because they have skills, are cheaper and are more willing to work.

Let's not forget that at one time we used to be a major manufacturing country until we priced ourselves out of the market allowing China, Taiwan etc to take over. If those at the top had been more willing to share the excessive payments made to them with the workers we probably still would be.

**Chris** · 06-09-2016, 07:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99

Boris, erstwhile Brexit leader, doesn't seem to be singing from this hymn sheet?

Boris Johnson: UK looks forward to welcoming new Polish immigrants

Why wouldn't we continue to welcome Polish immigrants? The campaign was fought on controlling immigration, not ending it. Only the most rabid remainiacs are still trying to paint the leave campaign as racist and isolationist. Do try to keep up.