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"Pro-Independence supporters attempt to burn to (sic) a Union Flag in George Square, Glasgow, Scotland, on September 18, 2014, during a referendum on Scottish independence."
Whether Mr Buchanan sought to stage the event or not is a matter you might wish to take up / clarify with him.
The unfortunate reality is that this "pledge" or "vow" - which appeared first on the front page of a newspaper - was not based on any existing party policy but is a supposed committment of three individual political party leaders acting in concert.
Scottish referendum results: Cross-party consensus collapses amid Tory-Labour spat on the 'English question'
"Some Conservative MPs, who want the Prime Minister to go further by setting up an English Parliament, threatened to vote against extra powers for the Scottish Parliament unless he beefs up his proposals for England."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ
....sucked a lot of people in.
I still believe it will happen.
However the pubic pressure on the Government needs to happen right away and across the UK. Cameron, Miliband and Clegg all promised this would happen and there were no clauses given on those powers being transferred. English votes for English laws is a good idea but needs to happen separately from these powers being transferred if it's going to cause a problem.
I think the consequences of not doing so would be pretty bad and include another referendum in just years.
However the pubic pressure on the Government needs to happen right away and across the UK. Cameron, Miliband and Clegg all promised this would happen and there were no clauses given on those powers being transferred. English votes for English laws is a good idea but needs to happen separately from these powers being transferred if it's going to cause a problem.
I think the consequences of not doing so would be pretty bad and include another referendum in just years.
Totally agree, I just wonder how many No voters would have voted Yes if there were no further powers for Scotland.
I still believe it will happen. However the pubic pressure on the Government needs to happen right away and across the UK. Cameron, Miliband and Clegg all promised this would happen and there were no clauses given on those powers being transferred. English votes for English laws is a good idea but needs to happen separately from these powers being transferred if it's going to cause a problem. I think the consequences of not doing so would be pretty bad and include another referendum in just years.
I admire your optimism Damien but the facts of the matter are that the three main party leaders (at least one of whom has form for pledge dishonesty) with no political mandate or legislative policy affording them the right to do so, supposedly "signed up to" a "pledge".
As far as I am aware there was no grand televised theatric public signing, no detail of exactly what they were pledging / vowing to do (ironic, given that their main criticism of the opponent campaign was that of uncertainty) and now we are seeing the splits appear in their own respective camps. I mentioned several times during the course of this thread the fact that the Edinburgh Agreement would require all of its signatories to debate, negotiate and agree everything after the outcome of the referendum no matter what the outcome. If I recall correctly you dismissed that as being largely irrelevant.
Given that position I'm surprised, to say the least, that you're now hoping to hold messrs Cameron, Clegg and Miliband to their word on the basis of what appears to be little more than a note scribbled in haste on the back of a fag packet and published on the front page of a newspaper in an attempt (successful at that) to make Scottish voters think they were being offered anything beyond that which they might achieve under any Edinburgh Agreement negotiations.
All things considered it was a master stroke on their part and people fell for it.
Where this might lead is anyones guess but certainly any trust that previously existed has been stretched beyond the pale.
Not at all, I abhor violence in any form, I just found it strange that you never commented on the Union Flag being set alight even though you did indeed see that image.
I didn't comment on that because of the context it was posted in.
It did seem strange to post that without condemning the hijacking of an event by racist bigots.
---------- Post added at 11:38 ---------- Previous post was at 11:35 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Angry
The editorial reference states.
"Pro-Independence supporters attempt to burn to (sic) a Union Flag in George Square, Glasgow, Scotland, on September 18, 2014, during a referendum on Scottish independence."
Whether Mr Buchanan sought to stage the event or not is a matter you might wish to take up / clarify with him.
Thanks Mr A.
Not that I think for a minute that there aren't Nationalist ar$eholes capable of burning the Union Jack, that just looked a little framed for the camera.
Wouldn't it be best to actually see if the extra powers promised to Scotland materialise before slating everyone involved?
It's the sudden lack of clarity that bothers me. The Government made a promise to Scotland and they should keep it to the timetable agreed. Any perceived movement of the goal posts needs to be condemned quickly.
There are a lot of people unhappy in Scotland. We need to help things get back to normal and it won't be helped by a perception that the party leaders are going back on their promises one day after the vote.
---------- Post added at 13:12 ---------- Previous post was at 12:54 ----------
Quote:
Given that position I'm surprised, to say the least, that you're now hoping to hold messrs Cameron, Clegg and Miliband to their word on the basis of what appears to be little more than a note scribbled in haste on the back of a fag packet and published on the front page of a newspaper in an attempt (successful at that) to make Scottish voters think they were being offered anything beyond that which they might achieve under any Edinburgh Agreement negotiations.
I think you're being too brutal here. I am unhappy with the suddenly ambiguity but we're a long away from this being 'done'. For example Brown has confirmed that the motion in the leaflet Russ posted has been signed and will be presented to Parliament on Monday. They haven't completely dismissed their promises yet.
It's the sudden lack of clarity that bothers me. The Government made a promise to Scotland and they should keep it to the timetable agreed. Any perceived movement of the goal posts needs to be condemned quickly.
There are a lot of people unhappy in Scotland. We need to help things get back to normal and it won't be helped by a perception that the party leaders are going back on their promises one day after the vote.
I really don't understand the negativity. It's not even a day and a half since the results were announced. At this point in time, nobody can say that what's promised won't be delivered, nobody
I think you're being too brutal here. I am unhappy with the suddenly ambiguity but we're a long away from this being 'done'. For example Brown has confirmed that the motion in the leaflet Russ posted has been signed and will be presented to Parliament on Monday. They haven't completely dismissed their promises yet.
I take your point Damien, completely.
However, for Brown to refer to himself and the others variously as "promise makers" and "promise keepers" in this context does not bode well. Anyone with access to Google and / or a modicum of interest in UK politics would have good cause to be worried at such accolades being bandied about.
I really don't understand the negativity. It's not even a day and a half since the results were announced. At this point in time, nobody can say that what's promised won't be delivered, nobody
The negativity is probably because the first part of the much publicised, front page vow has already been broken.:
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