Corbyn's kerfuffle

Originally Posted by rhyds

Nationalised industry (with added Tony Benn!) gave us the Austin Allegro and Morris Marina

Private enterprise gave us the Vauxhall Astra.

Austin Allegro ,couldn't even make a Steering wheel round

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by martyh

Austin Allegro ,couldn't even make a Steering wheel round

The early ones were so flexible that the rear window could pop out when you jacked them up. Nationalisation at it's best. Like British steel loosing £3m a day. Corbyn and Smith would have us back in the seventies at full throttle.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by rhyds

Nationalised industry (with added Tony Benn!) gave us the Austin Allegro and Morris Marina

Private enterprise gave us the Vauxhall Astra.

Ahhh yes, bring back the good old days of Red Robbo, Scargill, Jack Dash, Jack Jones and all the other troublemakers who succeeded in ruining their own industries.

[rhyds]

The Labour industrial policy of the 60s and 70s was basically this:

Take an industry, in this case car making (but the same applied to IT, aerospace and others) and "encourage" various firms in that industry to merge to become one large company. In our case BMC (who owned Austin, Morris, MG, Wolsley, Riley and built some tractors and light vans and were racking up serious losses) were "encouraged" to merge with Leyland Motors, who at the time were making profits selling trucks and busses around the world, to create British Leyland.

The idea was that these British "super firms" would be more able to compete internationally than individual firms. However, what happened was that unlike the hostile takeovers that had created BMC and Leyland in the first place, there was no competitive drive to push the company in to developing better products. British Leyland knew it didn't have to build world beating trucks and busses as the government (through local bus companies and nationalised haulage businesses) would always buy whatever it built.

This loss of competitiveness caused serious operational issues, with money from profitable parts of the business being used to shore up loss making divisions, because pulling out of those areas of business and closing factories was politically impossible.

Also, your average Red Robbo knew that strikes would always lead to what they were asking for, because the Government had, essentially, a bottomless pit of money and didn't want to lose political points.

However the worst idea was that of Tony Benn, who decided that the Unions should be given a direct say in how British Leyland was run. The problem was that while Ford considered itself in business to make money by making cars, BL, according to the unions, was there to provide employment, and profitability was not a pressing concern...

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by martyh

All that Branson has done is release evidence that casts Corbyns claim into doubt ,if it was my company being lied about i would do the same as anyone would ,your going on as if Branson has made up some footage to screw Corbyn

Err no I'm not, I'm going on as if Branson or who ever has broken the law and if it's found that they have then they should be punished, that's all that's been done, just a little bit of illegal activity, possibly

---------- Post added at 19:28 ---------- Previous post was at 19:25 ----------

Originally Posted by Osem

Ahhh yes, bring back the good old days of Red Robbo, Scargill, Jack Dash, Jack Jones and all the other troublemakers who succeeded in ruining their own industries.

Or the good old days of a several months ago when a nationalised railway was making money for the country and since it's been private fares have gone up twice, cheap ticket use has been altered for the worse and staff cut

[rhyds]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Err no I'm not, I'm going on as if Branson or who ever has broken the law and if it's found that they have then they should be punished, that's all that's been done, just a little bit of illegal activity, possibly

Company policies aren't law. The Guardian article doesn't (As far as I can tell) claim any laws have been broken.

There are laws regarding the release of this kind of thing under the Data Protection Act, but most sources seem to agree that Virgin were in the clear with regards to that.

Face it, Corbyn's had his bright red socialist backside handed to him on a plate by a bearded pullover enthusiast...

---------- Post added at 19:32 ---------- Previous post was at 19:28 ----------

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Or the good old days of a several months ago when a nationalised railway was making money for the country and since it's been private fares have gone up twice, cheap ticket use has been altered for the worse and staff cut

Everyone apparently raves about "East Coast", however it was run on very strict commercial lines, and the fact the government was the shareholder didn't make much difference.

Also, what is the actual benefit of Nationalisation? Except possibly the warm, fuzzy feeling in the heart of a few 70s throwbacks and Unions salavting at the prospect of being able to strike without ever actually putting their employer out of business.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by rhyds

Company policies aren't law. The Guardian article doesn't (As far as I can tell) claim any laws have been broken.

There are laws regarding the release of this kind of thing under the Data Protection Act, but most sources seem to agree that Virgin were in the clear with regards to that.

Face it, Corbyn's had his bright red socialist backside handed to him on a plate by a bearded pullover enthusiast...

Who claimed company policy was law? and from what I've read there are data protection issues that need to be answered.

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_57...b042aee74dca3e

Oh and face up to what, I couldn't give a toss about corbyn and I think the whole episode isn't worth the time devoted to it so far.

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Err no I'm not, I'm going on as if Branson or who ever has broken the law and if it's found that they have then they should be punished, that's all that's been done, just a little bit of illegal activity, possibly

---------- Post added at 19:28 ---------- Previous post was at 19:25 ----------



Or the good old days of a several months ago when a nationalised railway was making money for the country and since it's been private fares have gone up twice, cheap ticket use has been altered for the worse and staff cut

Directly Operated Railways (DOR) had a remit to keep the service ticking over until a new private operator could be found. No money was being set aside for innovation or investment. Theirs was a temporary business model, unsustainable in the long term.

Virgin, however, has a strategy to develop the line and to invest in it. That may require the line's customers to pay more.

In time, we will see how well Virgin runs the line and how well used it is. Only then will we see whether DOR's management of the line was as good as nostalgic lefties have been claiming.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Chris

Branson's personal licence to interfere in any business carrying his name, regardless of the size of his actual shareholding, is legendary.

To be fair his Brand, is his business, and he should defend it where applicable.

---------- Post added at 21:35 ---------- Previous post was at 21:30 ----------

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Dragged through the mud by Richard, this story would never have been more than a byline without his interference and the old adage about all publicity is good publicity isn't true in the modern age. I have no problem with people being exposed as liars either, just as long as the person exposing them isn't behaving just as bad.

It shouldn't be a byline.

The leader of the opposition fabricates a situation and outright lies to the nation.

Not spin, not bending the truth. Outright, thought out deception.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Chris

Directly Operated Railways (DOR) had a remit to keep the service ticking over until a new private operator could be found. No money was being set aside for innovation or investment. Theirs was a temporary business model, unsustainable in the long term.

Virgin, however, has a strategy to develop the line and to invest in it. That may require the line's customers to pay more.

In time, we will see how well Virgin runs the line and how well used it is. Only then will we see whether DOR's management of the line was as good as nostalgic lefties have been claiming.

May require customers to pay more, iirc virgin have increased prices twice already, cut staff and messed about with the times you can book a cheaper ticket. Just because things were bad before most of us were born there's no reason nationalisation today has to echo the bad old days.

---------- Post added at 22:28 ---------- Previous post was at 22:26 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

To be fair his Brand, is his business, and he should defend it where applicable.

---------- Post added at 21:35 ---------- Previous post was at 21:30 ----------



It shouldn't be a byline.

The leader of the opposition fabricates a situation and outright lies to the nation.

Not spin, not bending the truth. Outright, thought out deception.

It's means nothing in the big scheme of things, what's been done about all the lies told during brexit or the illegal wars liars have led us into but sit down on the floor of a train and all hell breaks loose, Corbyn's a liar, big deal, he's in good company with the rest of them then

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

May require customers to pay more, iirc virgin have increased prices twice already, cut staff and messed about with the times you can book a cheaper ticket. Just because things were bad before most of us were born there's no reason nationalisation today has to echo the bad old days.

Sorry, but as a regular user of the west coast mainline since the very earliest days of privatisation, I have had a chance to see, up close and personal, what state BR left it in and how Virgin has turned it round. They didn't mess about with the WCML; they rescued it. They are in rail to develop sustainable business models for the long run (unlike the last two companies that took on the ECML who greedily over-bid for a franchise arrangement that carried very little risks if/when it failed to come off). Yes, if that costs more, then those who use the service are going to have to pay for it. If it was over-manned (a common problem in state-run concerns) then some people are going to lose their jobs. If the concession tickets are excessively generous, then there will be fewer of them. The railways have a social purpose but they must pay their way as far as possible, and my experience of Virgin on the west coast is that they are going to be able to deliver that.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

It's means nothing in the big scheme of things,

it does if he's a potential Prime Minister.

what's been done about all the lies told during brexit or the illegal wars liars

that's not what we're talking about. They're separate, but valid, issues.

sit down on the floor of a train and all hell breaks loose, Corbyn's a liar, big deal, he's in good company with the rest of them then

he's supposed to be the alternative...... The man of the people.........anti-establishment.....a man you can trust........believe in.........

But no, as agreed by you he is just another self serving, lying ( proven), gravy train politician.........so what is the frolicking point?

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Chris

Sorry, but as a regular user of the west coast mainline since the very earliest days of privatisation, I have had a chance to see, up close and personal, what state BR left it in and how Virgin has turned it round. They didn't mess about with the WCML; they rescued it. They are in rail to develop sustainable business models for the long run (unlike the last two companies that took on the ECML who greedily over-bid for a franchise arrangement that carried very little risks if/when it failed to come off). Yes, if that costs more, then those who use the service are going to have to pay for it. If it was over-manned (a common problem in state-run concerns) then some people are going to lose their jobs. If the concession tickets are excessively generous, then there will be fewer of them. The railways have a social purpose but they must pay their way as far as possible, and my experience of Virgin on the west coast is that they are going to be able to deliver that.

It's the second fare rise this year!

http://m.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/...nd_fares_hike/

Let's not even go into their franchise agreement either which saw them bid over a third more than their competitors, who is going to end up paying for that in the end.

---------- Post added at 03:07 ---------- Previous post was at 02:56 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

it does if he's a potential Prime Minister.

He's not, he's turned labour into a protest movement, there's more there's more chance of you becoming next pm

that's not what we're talking about. They're separate, but valid, issues.

Darn right they're separate issues, they're actually big issues rather than this nonsense. I forgot about hunt, he's told some massive lies and is in court very soon where they'll be exposed, I wonder what the backlash will be for messing with the health service but I fear it'll slip under the radar without pictures for us all to look at

he's supposed to be the alternative...... The man of the people.........anti-establishment.....a man you can trust........believe in.........

But no, as agreed by you he is just another self serving, lying ( proven), gravy train politician.........so what is the frolicking point?

Yep that's pretty much what he is sadly, when he first got labour's top job I really did have high hopes for him and thought he could do a lot of good but he's just out of his depth, as a constituency mp and activist I have no doubt he's very good but this was beyond him, anyone that was clinging on to the belief he was anything but after all these months deserves all they get and they really should purchase these magic beans from me.

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Yep that's pretty much what he is sadly, when he first got labour's top job I really did have high hopes for him and thought he could do a lot of good but he's just out of his depth, as a constituency mp and activist I have no doubt he's very good but this was beyond him, anyone that was clinging on to the belief he was anything but after all these months deserves all they get and they really should purchase these magic beans from me.

Please form an orderly queue thank you.

[papa smurf]

Polls show Jeremy Corbyn will win the Labour leadership with higher numbers than before – Smith only has himself to blame

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-a7218016.html