Huge fire at West London tower block

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by peanut

I'm shocked that rent can be up to around £2000 a month in those towers, and they class that the poor area? How anyone can afford that I'll never know.

Good heavens. Still, with the price of rents these days (especially in London), I imagine that even this is cheaper than the private sector.

Originally Posted by peanut

Obliviously, but the benefit cap for London is £23,000.

At least 58 are now presumed dead.

Asylum seekers can't claim Housing Benefit and aren't subject to any cap, as their accommodation costs are met by this department:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nati...upport_Service

It's ironic that some may have escaped harm from their own countries, only to have been injured or killed in this tower block!

[ianch99]

A K&C resident's perspective of his council's policies:

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Here's one question that can be answered now, how much of the 10 million recently spent on the building, if any was taken by the management company as profit

Most construction companies work on 3-5% profit of contract value. So they would have expected to make around 0.5m on the total job.

Just goes to show how awful some people in this country have become to highjack a tradegy like this to try and score political points when the only thing any decent person should be doing is grieving for the victims and doing what they can large or small for the survivors. I don't blame the residents for their behaviour at the minute they are in the rawest emotional state anyone can be but those exploiting them deserve a damn good kicking for their behaviour.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Just goes to show how awful some people in this country have become to highjack a tradegy like this to try and score political points when the only thing any decent person should be doing is grieving for the victims and doing what they can large or small for the survivors. I don't blame the residents for their behaviour at the minute they are in the rawest emotional state anyone can be but those exploiting them deserve a damn good kicking for their behaviour.

How right you are but it will always happen.

No it happens because we let it and because we don't stand up and expose those who do it and make it clear we want and expect better mainly because it's easier then doing something. If corbyn wants to impress me he will denounce his supporters involved in this and demand an immediate stop but he won't because he's upto his neck in this and so far has managed to con enough people he's somehow better.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...MCNEWEML6619I2

Hmmm!Is this too political?

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Just goes to show how awful some people in this country have become to highjack a tradegy like this to try and score political points when the only thing any decent person should be doing is grieving for the victims and doing what they can large or small for the survivors. I don't blame the residents for their behaviour at the minute they are in the rawest emotional state anyone can be but those exploiting them deserve a damn good kicking for their behaviour.

It's a political failure. Obviously people should be helping the survivors but at the same time politicians and the media need to be asking serious questions into how this happened, if the residents complaints to the local council were ignored and so on. This is a scandal, it cannot be dismissed as just an unfortunate event that couldn't have been avoided.

This is social housing provided by the state. They provided relatively poor people housing built covered in flammable material with, it seems, inadequate fire safety systems. How is that not a political issue?

And to want to stand up to the people asking those questions?

Originally Posted by Damien

It's a political failure. Obviously people should be helping the survivors but at the same time politicians and the media need to be asking serious questions into how this happened, if the residents complaints to the local council were ignored and so on. This is a scandal, it cannot be dismissed as just an unfortunate event that couldn't have been avoided.

This is social housing provided by the state. They provided relatively poor people housing built covered in flammable material with, it seems, inadequate fire safety systems. How is that not a political issue?

And to want to stand up to the people asking those questions?

And if those questions shouldn't be asked now when is it not political to ask these questions? When is the right time?

Way to misrepresent what i was saying i never once said there are no questions to be asked or investigations to be done i personally believe there is criminal culpability in this. I think the council has a lot to answer for as does the company that performed the refurbishment but that takes time and isn't something that can deliver immediate answers. The exploitation of the victims here is whats sickening the way a certain group has jumped in here to do nothing but make this political is disgusting and furthers nothing for the victims.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Way to misrepresent what i was saying i never once said there are no questions to be asked or investigations to be done i personally believe there is criminal culpability in this. I think the council has a lot to answer for as does the company that performed the refurbishment but that takes time and isn't something that can deliver immediate answers. The exploitation of the victims here is whats sickening the way a certain group has jumped in here to do nothing but make this political is disgusting and furthers nothing for the victims.

If this investigation is rushed the first people to complain about the results will be the families. Due process has to be observed here, as painful as that is.

If negligence or criminality is proved then I don't know anyone who won't be wanting the book thrown at those responsible for it.

When it comes to the local council, let's not forget they have never dealt with a disaster on this scale before and attacking the civic centre isn't going to solve anything. Conflating chaos with deliberately uncaring and callous behaviour is totally unfair.

Well I think getting the questions out in the open NOW will make sure that when it is apparently the right time(whenever that's supposed to be) those questions may actually get some sort of answers.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Well I think getting the questions out in the open NOW will make sure that when it is apparently the right time(whenever that's supposed to be) those questions may actually get some sort of answers.

The problem is that questions are being randomly being spewed with an agenda that has nothing whatsoever to do with the problem.

Eg

The Grenfell Tower fire was a "preventable accident" caused by "years of neglect" by the local council and successive governments, Mayor of London Sadiq Khan has said.

The building had just been renovated. How is that neglect?

No matter how the fire spread outside the building, it still spread too easily from inside to outside, and then back inside again. If it had remained outside then maybe more people would have survived. A potential weak link in fire resistance may be the exterior walls. It could have allowed the fire to get back inside more easily.

Originally Posted by nomadking

The problem is that questions are being randomly being spewed with an agenda that has nothing whatsoever to do with the problem.

Eg
The building had just been renovated. How is that neglect?

Well it could appear they went with the cheapest form of cladding which was flammable and also that they ignored the residents pleas for the fire risk the building posed even without that cladding.

---------- Post added at 19:52 ---------- Previous post was at 19:50 ----------

Originally Posted by Osem

When it comes to the local council, let's not forget they have never dealt with a disaster on this scale before and attacking the civic centre isn't going to solve anything. Conflating chaos with deliberately uncaring and callous behaviour is totally unfair.

The council seems to have been removed from the management of the crisis but the real issue here isn't their poor response but that they were in charge of this building ultimately and they have had repeated complaints about the safety of the building.

Trouble is right now we don't know if the company that refurbished this tower actually stuck to the specs they submitted or changed them for cheaper materials once they got the contract not exactly unheard of and the answer to just that question could take weeks to answer. The council and it's record will now come under scrutiny and heads will hopefully roll given the quality of the council where i live it isn't a big stretch that they were little more then a council tax collection point with no interest in the rest of their duties and responsibilities.

There are many questions that have to be answered about all of this but they need to be asked by qualified people with the knowledge to understand what's happened here and the ability to lay blame where it truly belongs. No situation like this should be highjacked by **** political oppurtunistic sleaze and victims shouldn't be used in that way and that's what has happened here we even get a lily allen visit. These type of incidents used to bring out the best in everyone and while it has in a good number of people who have been fantastic in the help they have offered we now have whole groups who look at things like this as a means to further their agenda.