Direct Debit Theft

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by martyh

If the bank reverses the claim and the op gets all his money back ,any money owed due to the cancellation of his contract then becomes a debt to VM which hopefully the next time they try to collect will be billed correctly with a breakdown of the costs.

http://www.thesmartwaytopay.co.uk/di...guarantee.aspx

Which clearly states if the money is refunded in error it must be paid back to the payee which strangely I have already stated.

See Ben as to the breakdown of costs as it is his company not mine as Virgin Media tend not to do that which many on here will agree.

Originally Posted by Peter_

Which clearly states if the money is refunded in error it must be paid back to the payee which strangely I have already stated.
.

It won't have been refunded in error though .The op isn't denying he owes money just the amount and that VM have taken more than the amount agreed without informing the op so the claim will be valid as per the guarantee ,he will get his money back and be billed for the correct amount.Any money refunded belongs to the op as it is not for the bank to decide who owes who money, that is an argument between VM and the OP .

@Rovimax

personally i would cancel the DD either by phoning the bank or through online banking ,get your money back into your bank and then agree to pay any sum owed to VM only after a breakdown of costs have been issued and do as i do ,never have DD's to phone/internet companies or tv subscription companies

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by martyh

It won't have been refunded in error though .The op isn't denying he owes money just the amount and that VM have taken more than the amount agreed without informing the op so the claim will be valid as per the guarantee ,he will get his money back and be billed for the correct amount.Any money refunded belongs to the op as it is not for the bank to decide who owes who money, that is an argument between VM and the OP .

@Rovimax

personally i would cancel the DD either by phoning the bank or through online banking ,get your money back into your bank and then agree to pay any sum owed to VM only after a breakdown of costs have been issued and do as i do ,never have DD's to phone/internet companies or tv subscription companies

I take it you have little or no understanding of what a Direct Debit Indemnity actually is by the above comment, you ring your bank tell them a payment has been wrongly taken by the payee, the bank say OK we can bring it back but if you actually owe that amount then the payee can reclaim it, the bank only has your word that the payment was taken incorrectly as they do not have the time or the facility to investigate your claim hence the warning given.

I have worked in a banking call centre and have done many Direct Debit Indemnities which the majority of posters on here have never had dealings with and on each call we have to warn the caller of what can happen if the claim is incorrect or not a valid claim.

Try not to allow emotions to get in the way of facts.

Originally Posted by Peter_

I take it you have little or no understanding of what a Direct Debit Indemnity actually is by the above comment, you ring your bank tell them a payment has been wrongly taken by the payee, the bank say OK we can bring it back but if you actually owe that amount then the payee can reclaim it, the bank only has your word that the payment was taken incorrectly as they do not have the time or the facility to investigate your claim hence the warning given.

I have worked in a banking call centre and have done many Direct Debit Indemnities which the majority of posters on here have never had dealings with and on each call we have to warn the caller of what can happen if the claim is incorrect or not a valid claim.

Try not to allow emotions to get in the way of facts.

I know full well how a DD works thank you

You said that the money refunded does not belong to the payer even though it is refunded to his bank account,wrong ,the account holder is free to do what he likes with money in his account ,any money owed to the company will become a debt and claimed in the usual manner i.e through billing with a correctly broken down itemisation.The banks simply act as a channel for the money they are not there to mediate between payer and payee.In this case the DD was for more than the agreed amount so the OP should reclaim the money and then get an itemised bill from VM and then pay the correct sum of money which can only be collected from his account if he gives authority to VM

Your can get your bank to do an Indemnity for you but if the payment is correct it will always be repaid to the claiming company at which point you may incur bank charges, that is also part of the Direct Debit Guarantee as the company will never be out of pocket if the payment is rightly theirs.

and this(in bold) is just completely wrong

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by martyh

I know full well how a DD works thank you

You said that the money refunded does not belong to the payer even though it is refunded to his bank account,wrong ,the account holder is free to do what he likes with money in his account ,any money owed to the company will become a debt and claimed in the usual manner i.e through billing with a correctly broken down itemisation.The banks simply act as a channel for the money they are not there to mediate between payer and payee.In this case the DD was for more than the agreed amount so the OP should reclaim the money and then get an itemised bill from VM and then pay the correct sum of money which can only be collected from his account if he gives authority to VM



and this(in bold) is just completely wrong

It is not a refund it is an indemnity which is different and if incorrect the money can be requested back and as the was a Direct Debit on the account in the first place the OP had given permission for monies to be taken.

So according to your post anyone can claim back money for any reason just because they feel like claiming it back, why not try it and tell us the result as it will do wonders for your credit rating.

Of course Ben could pm the OP and ask if he wanted any help with this issue.

Originally Posted by Peter_

It is not a refund it is an indemnity which is different and if incorrect the money can be requested back and as the was a Direct Debit on the account in the first place the OP had given permission for monies to be taken.

So according to your post anyone can claim back money for any reason just because they feel like claiming it back, why not try it and tell us the result as it will do wonders for your credit rating.

Of course Ben could pm the OP and ask if he wanted any help with this issue.

Under the DD guarantee a DD taken in error or for the incorrect amount the payer is entitled to a "full and immediate"* refund from the bank ,the bank then fill out a indemnity form to get the money from whatever company took the DD originally that bit is the banks problem and nothing to do with the customer .

*"immediate" in banking terms usually means about 3-4 days

I have had to use the DD refund on 3 occasions ,1 with virgin mobile and 2 times with sky .On both occasions too much money was taken i reclaimed the full amount in 4 days and arranged to pay the correct amount using the companies on line payment service which i still do

I think the fact you used to work in a banking call center is both a blessing and unsurprising .I have been told by my banks call center on many occasions that the only way to cancel a DD is by giving at least 48hrs notice ,totally untrue ,i have also been told that a DD can only be activated if i go into the branch and sign the mandate again totally untrue .In my experience some banking staff have no idea how a DD works

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by Peter_

You actually believe that he reads all those emails, get real it is not his personal email address and he will never see the inbox for that email address.

And that is where you are wrong.

---------- Post added at 12:43 ---------- Previous post was at 12:41 ----------

Originally Posted by Peter_

Of course Ben could pm the OP and ask if he wanted any help with this issue.

As I'm not in a customer contact role, nor have I ever worked in the Mobile side of the business nor have any access to the billing systems, there wouldn't be much point in me doing that as I wouldn't be able to help.

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

And that is where you are wrong.

You really think that he reads thousands of emails per day, he has staff for exactly that and a different email addy for internal and external use.

---------- Post added at 15:12 ---------- Previous post was at 15:07 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

Under the DD guarantee a DD taken in error or for the incorrect amount the payer is entitled to a "full and immediate"* refund from the bank ,the bank then fill out a indemnity form to get the money from whatever company took the DD originally that bit is the banks problem and nothing to do with the customer .

*"immediate" in banking terms usually means about 3-4 days

I have had to use the DD refund on 3 occasions ,1 with virgin mobile and 2 times with sky .On both occasions too much money was taken i reclaimed the full amount in 4 days and arranged to pay the correct amount using the companies on line payment service which i still do

I think the fact you used to work in a banking call center is both a blessing and unsurprising .I have been told by my banks call center on many occasions that the only way to cancel a DD is by giving at least 48hrs notice ,totally untrue ,i have also been told that a DD can only be activated if i go into the branch and sign the mandate again totally untrue .In my experience some banking staff have no idea how a DD works

An Indemnity is instant so once again you are wrong and so wide of the mark it is amazing to read, it shows instantly in your balance and is therefore available to be spent even though you are advised that it may be claimed again by the payee.

Also if a Direct Debit is within 48 hours of its payment date it cannot be stopped which is correct so do try getting your facts correct before posting rubbish.

It probably a great idea that you are no longer a builder/jobber/cowboy as the rubbish that comes out of you must have meant you giving outrageous estimates for jobs and possibly why we are now driving for a living.

Do you find the above amusing as you must have when you posted your comment above as did find my above comment amusing but my reason for moving is to a better job so again so wrong and no surprise either.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by Peter_

You really think that he reads thousands of emails per day, he has staff for exactly that and a different email addy for internal and external use.

No he doesn't. Not denying that others don't have access to the address, but it is his address, and he does use it

Originally Posted by BenMcr

No he doesn't. Not denying that others don't have access to the address, but it is his address, and he does use it

I have met Neil at a event and it is his e mail, he does not get thousands per day either.

[qasdfdsaq]

Originally Posted by Peter_

try getting your facts correct before posting rubbish.

Try taking your own advice.

Originally Posted by Peter_

An Indemnity is instant so once again you are wrong and so wide of the mark it is amazing to read, it shows instantly in your balance and is therefore available to be spent even though you are advised that it may be claimed again by the payee.
.

DD's and the repayments are handled by BACS process which takes at least 3 days ,which is the fastest i have had one

Also if a Direct Debit is within 48 hours of its payment date it cannot be stopped which is correct so do try getting your facts correct before posting rubbish.

Your bank or building society can make the cancellation up to and including the due date, but try not to leave it until the last minute or you run the risk of a payment still being made.

http://www.thesmartwaytopay.co.uk/Di...rectDebit.aspx

also i could go into my online banking and cancel any DD's the day before they are due and they do not get payed.

Do you find the above amusing as you must have when you posted your comment above as did find my above comment amusing but my reason for moving is to a better job so again so wrong and no surprise either.

If the factual errors you have posted are anything to go by then it is a very good job you no longer work in the call center ,and i'll thank you to refrain from commenting on my job choice ,you know nothing of my skills ,experience or circumstances so do not ever attempt to insult me in that way again

The OP has been correctly advised by myself and other posters to claim the money back under the DD guarantee and based on his info given he would be successful ,he would then need to arrange payment to VM for any monies owed .Telling him that any repayment could be taken off him without warning leaving him overdrawn as the money doesn't actually belong to him is just plain wrong on so many levels .By claiming an indemnity the authority for VM to approach your bank for funds has been removed so they cannot ever go into that account again unless a new instruction is given by the account holder ,they must therefore use more traditional billing methods and send a bill for the correct amount

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by martyh

DD's and the repayments are handled by BACS process which takes at least 3 days ,which is the fastest i have had one

A Direct Debit Indemnity has nothing whatsoever to do with the BACS system and if you call up and ask for one to be done it is back in your account as soon as the button is clicked, if your bank tells you otherwise they are lying.


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[Derek]

Everyone can stop with the sniping and petty abuse now.

[devilincarnate]

I have been reading this and thinking about what has happened to the OP. When a CSA quotes the Early cancellation fee it only covers the line rental and does not take in to any charges that will not be showing on the account (due to be shown on the next bill).

So when the OP has said "excessive" charges this is what could have transpired, due to the extra cost of the DD than the stated price?